Evidence of meeting #4 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was strategy.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Keenan  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment
Caroline Weber  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Policy and Communications Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

No, it's all right. I can understand your not having it.

My second question concerns the Sustainable Development Advisory Council. According to the act, the council is comprised of representatives of each province. On looking at the list of members that you sent us, I see that one of the Quebec representatives is Mr. Gilles Godard of the Quebec Used Oil Management Association. The second representative, Mr. Robert Dubé, appears to be the president of an environmental personnel recruitment firm. I'm not sure who exactly he is representing. I have nothing against the individuals who were selected, but I want to know if you consulted with the provinces prior to making the appointments? I don't think that the director general of a used oil management association or the president of a personnel recruitment firm faithfully represent Quebec's interests on the council. My question is as follows: Were the representatives supposed to be Quebec government officials, or officials of companies that have their head offices in Quebec and an address in Quebec and who will speak for Quebec on the advisory council? I'm not sure if you understand my question.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Time has expired.

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Can he answer the question?

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Again, those are government appointees, though.

Were they done by order in council?

5:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Michael Keenan

No, they were done under the authority of the Minister of the Environment.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay.

So it was the minister himself who made those appointments. I'm sure you'll have to talk to the minister if you want to get more background on those individuals.

Did you want to respond to any of the other comments made by Monsieur Bigras?

5:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Michael Keenan

We'll endeavour to provide the report that the member was seeking.

I will say that a fair bit of effort went into the appointment of the 25 members of the committee and there's a pretty high level of confidence that we'll receive good direction and good advice from those members during the consultation period.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Just for the committee's information, the environment commissioner will be appearing on April 1 to talk about his comments on the federal sustainable development strategy.

Ms. Duncan, we're down to the last five or six minutes, so I may cut you off at about three or three and a half minutes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I have a few brief questions.

Mr. Keenan, I'm looking at this other document, “A Guide to Green Government”, which I think is affiliated. Unfortunately, there are no page numbers, but under section 2 it talks about “Planning and Decision-Making for Sustainable Development”, and then it talks about policy tools.

I'm puzzled. I would encourage you to adjust the document, because it makes no reference to the enforcement and compliance strategies and policies that are already in place in departments. The reason I'm mentioning this is that departments don't have broad access to those tools. They're already prescribed very clearly, and to the credit of the government, because that came about when the first CEPA was tabled. Minister Tom McMillan actually tabled the first enforcement compliance policy, which triggered similar policies across Canada. I think it's really important to reference that.

The other matter that you might want to reference is the commitment Canada has made under the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation. I think it's article 5 of that agreement which states that Canada commits to effective environmental enforcement. There have been a lot of agreements under that. In fact, when I was the head of law and enforcement there, I led a whole dialogue and agreement on how the three governments were going to measure and report on effective enforcement and compliance. My understanding is that the department developed that almost 10 years ago.

I think it gives credibility to this to reference documents and the good work departments have already done. You don't have to reply. I'm just pointing that out.

On page 25 of your draft strategy, “Protecting Nature”, I'm a little concerned with article 5.1.1, “Enabling Capacity”. DFO is reporting that they'll develop 100% of recovery strategies under mandated requirements by 2012. In fact, in many cases, that may mean they're not in compliance with the law because they are actually not complying with requirements, so it's a little awkward there to say that they're going to comply with this instead of what the law requires. Actually and amazingly, SARA prescribes deadlines for when they have to produce these strategies and so forth.

I have one other point. You said that actually it'll be in.... I think the document is useful because it points out areas that aren't there yet, where we don't have targets. One of the things I noticed under the section on water is that there is no target for or mention whatsoever of dealing with lakes and rivers. It talks about quality, but it doesn't talk about management, except for the Great Lakes. I would have hoped.... There is some kind of vague thing towards the end about things to do, but it doesn't actually mention what the government will do under the Canada Water Act, let's say, where they have a lot of powers to manage waters.

Also, it doesn't mention where they might be stepping up the monitoring programs in the field in specified areas. For example, we looked at the impact of the tar sands on water, and there are going to be recommendations out of this committee, but I would have anticipated that they would have said they're going to do something--that they're going to do targeted rivers or lakes or something. There doesn't seem to be anything there outside of the Great Lakes that talks about targeting.

You know, there used to be a huge program in Environment Canada called the Canada Water.... Does anybody remember what it was called? It was done away with. There is increasing pressure on the federal government, particularly for transboundary waters or where there is some kind of international obligation. What is the government doing? It's not always Environment Canada. Sometimes it's DFO and so forth. I was kind of surprised that there was nothing there at all, particularly in view of the review we've been doing in this committee.

I'm finished.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you very much.

I do want to give some time to Mr. Warawa unless you have a comment or something to add, Mr. Keenan.

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Michael Keenan

I have a quick response. I think I see transparency at work here, and I thank the honourable member for these observations and the advice. I think they're valuable. I'll carry them back. I'm also going to talk to DFO colleagues about their timeline.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Also, I would just say that on the water strategy, there's more than just the Great Lakes. There's Lake Winnipeg--

5:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

--the greatest of the great lakes.

Mr. Warawa, will you take us to the bells, please?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. McGuinty was quite right that it was a previous Liberal government that appointed the Commissioner of the Environment. I had a chance to review some of the summary reports that the commissioner did provide to Parliament on that. Back in 1998 she said:

the federal government is failing to meet its policy commitments.

In 1999 she said there's:

additional evidence of the gap between the federal government's intentions and its domestic actions.

In 2000 she said the government:

continues to have difficulty turning that commitment into action.

In 2001 she said:

The continued upward trend of Canada's emissions demonstrates that the government has not transformed its promises into results.

In 2002 she said the government's:

sustainable development deficit continues to grow

In 2003 she said:

My review found a gap between the commitments made and the results achieved.

Good intentions are not enough.

In 2004 she said: Why is progress so slow? I am left to conclude that the reasons are lack of leadership, lack of priority, and lack of will.

In 2005 she said: When it comes to protecting the environment bold announcements are often made and then often forgotten as soon as the confetti hits the ground.

Mr. Speaker, the current leader said:

I think our party has gotten into a mess on the environment

I guess the important question is, why couldn't Mr. Godfrey get his sustainable development legislation through under a previous Liberal government? Mr. Speaker, it's because we're a government of action and getting it done.

Thank you very much.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

The bells are going to go off any minute.

On that note, we're all having fun here, that's great.

I'll thank both Ms. Weber and Mr. Keenan for appearing today. It gives us the background that we need to continue on with our review of the strategy and provide our comments to you as you move forward with the public consultation and other consultations the government is undertaking.

With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

I got it. The meeting is adjourned.