Environment Committee on Dec. 8th, 2010

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan, and thank you, everyone. Your reports are truly well written and instructive, and very valuable. I congratulate you.

Mr. Vaughan, last year, you told us, on the subject of climate change, that the government had no plan, no strategy. You repeat that this year. Has there been no change since last year? Are you reporting the same observation as last year?

[Scott Vaughan]

Thank you for the question. Last year, we submitted a report to Parliament on the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act. We said the government had an annual plan. However, we said there were gaps in that plan, and the Act requires that the government present a plan each year. So we have an obligation to do that.

This time, the situation is different, we are talking about climate change in terms of adaptation to the impacts. We said there was no federal strategy, no federal plan. In addition, Mr. Keenan said that in 2007, the government was supposed to prepare a federal strategy to deal with the impacts of climate change, but as of today we still have no plan.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I think that a plan and a strategy are not exactly the same thing. We start with strategies, we establish them, and then we make a plan, based on our strategies.

So you are reiterating that at present, the government has no strategy or plan for dealing with climate change.

[Scott Vaughan]

Exactly.

I think we used both terms in the document, "strategy" and "plan".

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I would like to move on to another subject, Mr. Vaughan. That is spills in waterways. Could you tell me whether you have taken into account the spill that occurred in 1970, the Irving Whale black tide disaster on the Îles-de-la-Madeleine? You know that between 150,000 and 200,000 plastic bags were filled with sand contaminated with oil and PCBs, highly toxic materials, and they are still there.

I didn't see that anywhere, unless I missed it. In your report, did you consider the fact that the Coast Guard does not seem to be able to satisfy either coastal residents or the experts? They say there is an imminent danger that the bags filled with oil- and PCB-saturated sand will burst one day—apparently, some do burst from time to time—and this would be a major danger both to coastal residents and to the flora, the biodiversity of the St. Lawrence.

Could you tell me whether you considered that example in your report? If so, would you have any recommendations to make about that? Is this a relevant situation? I have heard there were other ships elsewhere that were also in this condition.

Have you assessed the silence maintained by the Coast Guard, which keeps its doors shut and doesn't want to say what it wants to do about this? Have you had access to its information?

[Scott Vaughan]

Thank you for your question.

Obviously, that question is very important and I have noted the details. So we can continue to communicate with you after this meeting.

The period for which we did an audit is 2007 to 2009. So you might have to get information from Environment Canada. If there are long-term problems associated with pollutants that affect the quality of the environment—

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

That is why I'm talking to you about it today.

In fact, from 2007 to 2009 a lot of things happened in this case. This is 2010 and it seems to me that nothing is being done. In 2009 it was decided that nothing would be done to recover the bags and we would continue to wait for the bags to deteriorate by themselves. The experts say that at this rate, there is a risk we will still have bags of PCBs on the dunes on the islands a century from now.

It seems that you haven't studied that. So I wouldn't want to bother you with it.

I would like to move on to another subject. You have studied water quality. I'll give you an example of the problem between Transport Canada and the Environment Department. I'll take the example of a lake in my riding, but there are others. Let's take Lac Bowker, where they are trying to ban motorboats, this being under Transport Canada's jurisdiction, that pollute the water source for several municipalities that get their water from that lake. They damage the banks, the biodiversity around the lake. The people at Transport Canada have said it isn't their concern and Environment Canada is doing nothing.

You're telling me that you have done research into what Environment Canada is doing to protect our drinking water sources.

[Scott Vaughan]

You could put the question to Transport Canada and Environment Canada directly. In general, when a lot of departments are involved in an issue, sometimes there are coordination problems. That's a reality.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

You don't look at what the other departments are doing? And yet I see in some places that you talked to other departments.

[Scott Vaughan]

Yes. In chapter 2 of the report, we evaluated Environment Canada's role because responsibilities have changed when it comes to the two freshwater quality and quantity monitoring programs in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Ouellet, your time is up.

Does anyone from Environment Canada want to address the issue that Monsieur Ouellet raised?

[Michael Keenan]

The one point I would add, in addition to the comments by the commissioner, is that the member has pointed out a concern over water quality. I don't personally know this lake, but I assume it's completely within the boundaries of the province of Quebec. As such, a lot of the jurisdiction for that would be with the provincial government.

Environment Canada works closely with its counterparts in the Government of Quebec, and we share information and plans. For example, in the Parc marin du Saguenay-Saint-Laurent, where there's a shared jurisdiction, we work very closely together. But I believe that a lot of the jurisdiction for dealing with this would be at the provincial level as opposed to the federal level.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Mr. Cullen, you have the floor.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses today.

Looking at chapter 1, “Oil spills from Ships”, the entities, the governments, agreed with all four recommendations that the commissioner outlined.

Is that true?

[Gerard McDonald]

Yes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So the various government agencies agreed on the conclusions of the commissioner.

In the event of an oil spill from a tanker, what is the lead agency from the federal government?

[Gerard McDonald]

Are you talking about the response, the cleanup?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes.

[Gerard McDonald]

That would be the coast guard.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

The coast guard, the face of the federal government's response, gets the public praise or the public blame, depending on how things go.

The commissioner pointed out in his report that no procedures are in place to verify the Canadian Coast Guard's readiness, and the coast guard agrees with that finding.

[Jody Thomas]

The coast guard agrees that we haven't developed a system to systematically assess our capacity. But we say that this is a partnership, and our assessment will be evaluated as part of the risk assessment in the overall administration of the program.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This isn't news.

Commissioner Vaughan, was it 20 years ago that the federal government said we needed a national oil response strategy?

[Scott Vaughan]

Exactly--after the Brander-Smith report.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So 20 years later we don't have one. I know that things get busy, but we've expanded the amount of shipping and tankers across the country, and there's a prospect for more on all three coasts, one would argue.

This has caused you some concern as the commissioner. Is that correct?

[Scott Vaughan]

We said we had identified a number of management issues with the coast guard, like out-of-date emergency plans and out-of-date risk assessments. We highlighted them in the report.