Evidence of meeting #52 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alan Latourelle  Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency
Elaine Feldman  President, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Paul Boothe  Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment
Michael Keenan  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), we're studying the supplementary estimates (C) for the fiscal year 2010-11, and votes 25c and 30c under Environment, referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 8.

We're pleased to be joined today by the Minister of the Environment, the Honourable Peter Kent. Welcome, Minister.

Assisting him today, from the Department of the Environment we have Deputy Minister Paul Boothe; from the Parks Canada Agency we have Alan Latourelle, who is the chief executive officer; and from the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency we have Elaine Feldman, who is the president.

I welcome all of you to the table.

Minister, I'll turn it over to you to bring us your opening comments.

8:50 a.m.

Thornhill Ontario

Conservative

Peter Kent ConservativeMinister of the Environment

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your invitation to speak to the committee this morning.

I'm pleased to be here today to speak to the supplementary estimates (C), but I will as well address the main estimates.

This is the first time I have had the pleasure of appearing before the committee since being named minister for Environment Canada, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, and Parks Canada, and I'm looking forward to working with all of you in the committee in the days ahead.

As you know, the position of environment minister carries great opportunity, the opportunity to make a meaningful contribution to preserving Canada's spectacular natural legacy.

This government is keenly interested in striking the right balance between economic renewal and environmental protection. We have put in place a plan that is already reducing greenhouse gas emissions, a plan that takes a strategic sector-by-sector approach, a plan that focuses on real, measurable progress. And this plan, members, is already working. In partnership with provinces, territories, and others, we have already taken actions that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 65 megatonnes, bringing us to about one-quarter of the way to meeting our target of reducing our emissions to 607 megatonnes by 2020.

Yes, there is much still to do, but over the past five years a solid foundation has been laid. Together with our provincial and territorial partners and others, we've made significant progress in a number of areas, including establishing new standards for emissions from passenger vehicles and light-duty trucks, and we are in the process of doing the same for heavy vehicles; announcing standards that will phase out the use of dirty coal to generate electricity, another major emitter; signing the Copenhagen accord, an international agreement overseen by the United Nations that inscribes the greenhouse gas reduction targets of all major GHG emitters and establishes a framework that enhances the transparency of all parties' mitigation actions; providing $400 million in new and additional climate financing in 2010—the largest-ever contribution by Canada to support international efforts on climate change; and introducing aggressive new environmental enforcement rules, which have just passed into law.

With respect to climate change—one of the most serious environmental dangers facing the world today—we have made clear commitments and taken significant action. Along with the United States, we've pledged to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 17% below 2005 levels by 2020. It is, I agree, an ambitious target. To achieve that, we've developed a comprehensive plan to achieve real emission reductions in the short, medium, and long terms, while at the same time maintaining Canada's economic competitiveness and capacity to create jobs.

In some key areas Canada has strategically aligned its policy with that of our closest neighbour and largest trading partner, the United States. Although this approach is by no means a boilerplate environmental solution, in some sectors the highly integrated nature of the North American economy makes it the most practical and efficient approach. This builds on a long and successful history of collaboration between our two countries. In particular, I would note that 20 years ago this month Canada and the United States signed the air quality agreement. At that time, acid rain was causing serious damage to our lakes and our ecosystems on both sides of the border, and smog was a serious threat to the air we breathe. Working together, Canada and the U.S. have cut in half the emissions that lead to acid rain, and cut by one-third our smog-causing emissions in the transboundary region established under the agreement.

On the transportation front, which is responsible for about 22% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, we've worked closely with the United States on 2011 vehicle emission standards. That makes sense because of the seamless cross-border characteristics of the automotive industry. We will continue to work together on even tougher standards for 2017 and beyond.

In the case of electricity, however, we're taking our own path. The United States relies on coal to generate about half its electric power. The United States has 650 coal-fired plants, compared to Canada's 51, which means we're in a better position to pursue an independent regulatory course to phase out coal plants and to become a world leader in clean electricity.

To repeat, this approach reflects our commitment to realistic and pragmatic policies, aligning with the U.S. where it makes sense, as in the case of transportation, and pursuing a unique path, such as electricity, where it does not. The government is also taking action to ensure that the economic benefits of developing the oil sands are balanced by a strong, clear environmental mandate. To that end, we have accepted the recommendations of an independent advisory panel of scientists who reviewed water monitoring practices in the area around the oil sands, specifically the Athabasca River and connected waterways.

We are currently developing a technical plan based on those recommendations. Working with Alberta and other stakeholders, including aboriginal communities, environmental groups, and industry, the scope of our plan will expand to include air quality monitoring, plant and animal habitats.

Especially at a time when oil prices are historically high and the incentive to ramp up production is strong, there is a need for clear, strong leadership on this file, and we are providing just that.

As for the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, Mr. Chair, our focus for the upcoming year will be on delivering high-quality environmental assessments on major projects and playing a lead role in shaping the future of federal environmental assessment.

We're also working to ensure that aboriginal people are consulted on environmental assessments affecting them. This is particularly important, of course, because the agency, on behalf of the Government of Canada, is responsible for encouraging and supporting aboriginal participation in the environmental assessment process.

In addition, I would also like to add to the actions that Parks Canada is taking to establish more and more protected wilderness areas. These areas are known to be natural buffers that protect our planet against the impacts of climate change, such as droughts and floods. They also provide safe havens for plants and animals that help nature respond to changing conditions. These past four years alone, we have taken steps that will add more than 133,000 square kilometres to the existing lands and waters administered by Parks Canada. That's a 48% increase, or an additional protected area equivalent to the size of a country such as Greece.

I would like to turn now to the estimates documents that are before Parliament for consideration. There are, as you know, two main documents: the supplementary (C) estimates for the 2010-11 fiscal year, and the main estimates for the 2011-12 fiscal year. We will be looking at these estimates for my portfolio, including Environment Canada, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, and Parks Canada.

Let's start with the supplementary (C) estimates. These estimates are the final requests for adjustments to our funding allocations for this fiscal year. For Environment Canada, this fiscal year started with a request for $1.1 billion in planned expenditures. This was a 10% increase over last year.

The first thing you will probably notice about these estimates is that they are not seeking additional funds. Rather, they are seeking to transfer $4.7 million to other departments.

The majority of these funds will be directed to departments as part of Canada's climate change financing. This money comes from Environment Canada's $5 million share of the $400 million that was approved to support mitigation and adaptation in developing countries, as outlined in the Copenhagen accord.

For Parks Canada, the supplementary estimates (C) are requesting to redirect $5 million from program expenditures to the new parks and historic sites account. This transfer would cover additional costs associated with new national parks and national marine conservation areas.

Mr. Chair, let's turn now to the main estimates--the first request for departmental funding for the next fiscal year.

Environment Canada is requesting $872 million in these main estimates. This amount is a portion of the funding that the department will request over the course of the fiscal year. We expect further adjustments will be made to our funding through the supplementary estimates tabled later in the year.

As you all know, departmental expenditures can change from year to year. This is especially true for a regulatory department like mine, where a portion of the funding has been temporary in nature and is subject to further scrutiny before renewal. This fiscal year, a number of our programs based on temporary funding will expire. This does not mean that programs such as the chemicals management plan, the species at risk, the clean air agenda, and the federal contaminated sites action plan will end.

In this context, and as reflected in earlier reports on planning and priorities, these programs are following the renewal process. The extension or enhancement of their temporary funding is subject to government decisions. Once approved, funding amounts will be included in the supplementary estimates to be tabled later this year.

As for the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, the 2011-12 main estimates propose $30 million in funding for the agency. This request is $1 million higher than was requested in the main estimates for the last fiscal year. The agency is seeking this additional funding to fulfill its additional responsibility for aboriginal consultation during environmental assessments by federal review panels.

The 2011-12 main estimates for Parks Canada, on the other hand, total $690.5 million. The net decrease you may note with these estimates is largely attributable to the end of funding under Canada's economic action plan. These estimates also reflect some reductions that have been made to reduce the rate of growth in Parks Canada's operating expenditures.

Mr. Chairman, let me close once again by thanking the committee for this opportunity to join you, and for your ongoing work on behalf of Canadians. As a new minister I value your insights and welcome your suggestions. I look forward to working with all of you to lighten our footprint on this planet and preserve our incredible natural legacy for future generations.

I'd now be delighted to answer your questions.

Thank you.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you, Minister Kent. We appreciate your opening comments.

We'll open it up to our first round of questioning. I'm going to be judicious in making sure we stay to our seven minutes, to allow as many members as possible to ask the minister questions in the time we have him before the committee.

Mr. Kennedy, you have the floor.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming today.

I appreciate that you mentioned the main estimates. We want to talk with you about them, and probably at greater length. We'll have you back as well.

You said that supplementary estimates would bring back a large part of your budget. Your main estimates are 20% less than the main estimates last year. You couched some of that as temporary cancellations. Can you tell us that all the money that is missing will come back at budget time, as opposed to later on in the year? This is a disruption of programs, most of which are serving a purpose.

Do you want to identify for us which ones you don't expect to come back? In other words, which ones are you not currently advocating for renewal? Can you identify them for us, so at least the public will know what you are offering up by way of cuts? Are there some specific indications you can give us?

9 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Sure. Thank you very much.

I would clarify that these have not been terminated. The programs, temporary in nature, came to the end of their projected timeline, which is March 31. As I said, some of these were under the economic action plan. Others were programs that are in the renewal process now. I can give you the details of those--

9 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Minister, maybe I didn't give you the.... Can you tell us which programs are going to come back with the budget this year? Be very specific, if you would. Out of $140 million cut on climate change and clean air, how much of that do you propose is coming back with the budget in a couple of weeks?

9 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Well, you'll have to wait for the budget for the detail, but that is one of the sunsetted programs that we expect to continue and have entered into the renewal process--

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Now, there's a big difference between continuing, not being terminated, and being cut. In the generality that you're able to give us right now, are you able to assure us that substantially all of the program is coming back? Is half of it being cut? Is there something you'd like to give us by way of guidance about what we should expect?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

You'll understand that I can't give detail of the budget that will be read to Parliament on March 22. What I can tell you is that the logic behind temporary programs is to ensure that rather than having continuing programs that may have shortcomings and flaws and corrections required, the sunsetting period allows for evaluation, reassessment, and renewal. In that regard, as I said, the clean air agenda, the chemical management plan, and the contaminated sites action plan will undergo the renewal process.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

The renewal process that you're talking about may involve, you suggest, some cuts to those programs. Is that correct?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Well, no, I don't suggest that; what I say is that I can't discuss detail until the budget reveals the government's plan for the year ahead.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Minister, you do appreciate that this is our chance to understand where your emphasis is. You're the advocate for the environment in terms of spending.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

I think we're wanting to know what you--

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

As you said, I will be invited back, and I'd be glad to come back and talk about those details.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Okay.

Let's talk about one program that bridges both...of what we're talking about, and that is parks. You want to transfer $5 million into the parks fund, and you're doing that with only a few days left in the year.

Are you going to spend that money, or is it just going to go into a bit of a slush fund that will sit there?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Well, for the answer on the detail of that.... But no, I think that's an unfair characterization. Money can be spent up until the end of the fiscal year.

As CEO Latourelle will tell you now, it's going to be well spent.

9:05 a.m.

Alan Latourelle Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency

The transfer to the new parks and sites account is for expenditures that we're planning to have carried out by the end of March of this year. It's mostly for new parks that we've put in place--in Nahanni, for example, with the expansion in terms of the visitor centre in Fort Simpson.

We've cash-managed that so far. This will officially transfer it to the national new sites--

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

So the money is already spent and the transfer will pay for expenditures already made?

9:05 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency

Alan Latourelle

That's.... Well, the--

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

If you look at the behaviour of this fund over the last few years, you proposed to spend as much as $25 million just two years ago and you only spent $3.5 million.

I'm asking--just expressly, because this fund has some special permission--is the money going to the fund or is it going to be spent and used by the end of the year? That's really the specific question, and then I have a follow-up question.

9:05 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency

Alan Latourelle

With regard to the fund and the new parks and sites account, the whole concept behind it is to make sure that as we develop our new parks and put them in place, we have the funding secured in a central account. We--

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

So it's going to the account.

9:05 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

The account will then rise to about $25 million. I guess we'll have to wait to see what the plan is to spend that.

As well, a number of promises have been made. The fund is listed against several of those promises for national parks, national historic sites, as well as the national marine conservation areas. What is the real cost of developing those sites? Has that been tabled before? Can we see that?

You can appreciate that to an outsider it looks like there's no plan to develop those new parks that have been promised when the only money that goes towards it is the money found at the end of the year. It goes into the fund, and the fund then doesn't get spent sometimes.

How much does it take? Can you forecast for us...? Development of these parks has been promised. What is the cost? How much more money...? These are new areas that require development. All kinds of capital and operation expenditures will accrue from that. Can you put forward for us today, or shortly afterwards, how much these new commitments will take? We could then compare that with the money that's been set aside in the fund, which has been roughly the same amount for the last several years.

So is there an amount of money that you can tell us globally, or can you specifically give us an amount for those parks that are promised and still outstanding?