Evidence of meeting #3 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
You're aware, of course, that the government already acted on these same concerns in September 2010.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Correct.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
You're aware that in September 2010 the government created an expert panel of very distinguished academics and scientists in this area in order to review the very problems you are now giving us in October 2011.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
And in fact you're aware that the panel reported in December 2010 and then actually came up with a framework for monitoring in March 2011. Is that correct?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I have elsewhere described that as virtual lightning speed compared with the usual pace of events around the government. Would you agree with that characterization?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I would say that they set an ambitious timetable, 90 days, and they made that timetable.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
In fact the monitoring framework that was released in March 2011 is actually a gold-plated, world-class environmental monitoring framework to deal with the problems that you found existed up to June, July, August, September of 2010. Is that correct?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
What we've said in the report is that “if fully implemented, these commitments hold the promise for establishing a credible, robust, and publicly accessible monitoring system”.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
In fact, in order to address the problems that you found a year or a year and a half ago, it was really necessary for the government to come up with a plan, wasn't it?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
And that's exactly what they've done in a very short time. Isn't that correct?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Absolutely.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
And in fact not only was that framework issued in March 2011, but not many weeks after that, in July 2011, the government further followed up with a specific framework and plans for an integrated ecosystems water monitoring. Are you aware of that?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I am aware, yes.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I have the whole thing in front of me. It's rather impressive and runs to several hundred pages and involves the work of dozens of scientists and actually is quite impressive. I am optimistic that all of the problems you found when you did your audit a year or a year and a half ago have been well addressed in that report.
I want to just read to you what the experts who reviewed this report had to say about it.
The outlined integrated oil sands monitoring program framework and proposed sampling design meet the key principles that were identified by the Federal Oil Sands Advisory Panel for the design and implementation of a “world-class” monitoring program.
Do you agree with that?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I absolutely do.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I notice that there is reference to this in the introduction of your report, titled “Commissioner's Perspective”, but that it is nowhere to be found in the section under assessing cumulative environmental impacts, and it is barely mentioned that it even existed at paragraph 2.39.
What went into the decision not to put it in the actual chapter on this subject?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Thanks for the question.
The chapter that we are releasing today on the environmental assessment is an “assurance level” audit, meaning that we don't put in audit chapters information for which we haven't provided an assurance level. Therefore, since, as you said, we have not audited the government's plan—since the government's plan was released subsequent to our completion of the audit work—the purpose of the perspective is to provide related or complementary information in order to inform parliamentarians of work related to the audit work.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I know nothing about auditing, so I speak from a position of lack of knowledge, and I don't want to be too tough on you. But this panel reported in December 2010, and the plan was actually delivered in March 2011. That's more than six months ago.
Would it take that long for you to have looked at the process, at least, and to say this process is excellent; it has involved many academics, has covered all the bases, responds to the concerns that were in our report? Would that have been too difficult to do in six months?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Well, first of all you're absolutely right, sir: the first phase was produced in March. The second phase, which was to complement and fulfill the full plan, was in July. This report that you have in front of you was originally due to be tabled in May 2011. It was moved because of the election. So the time lag is partly to do with the lag on what we had planned to do in early May; now it's being presented in early October.
Conservative
NDP
Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Sloan, and Ms. Leach, it's nice to see you all here.
The report talks about scientists at Environment Canada saying they don't have enough information to actually come up with good reports and to do good analysis. I think with science we never have all the answers. It's hard to have all the answers we need. So I'm wondering if what you found is typical of any sort of scientific reporting where we don't have all the answers or if this is something quite different.
