Environment Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2012

[Tom Russell]

There's absolutely no denying that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Okay. Great.

Ms. St. Claire, I believe you also made a similar comment—namely, that if we can change the brand on this, we can spur further visitors to the park, further revenues, etc. Would you characterize as correct the statements by Mr. Russell around tourism increasing as a result of this brand change?

[Kim St. Claire]

Tourism, and reaching Canadians in general—it helps with awareness of the park and the area the park is in.

One of the changes, from a tourism perspective, that would make this a much more smooth partnership for Parks Canada, I would suggest, is with regard to the fact that 20 or 30 years ago, a lot of our visitors were island-based. It's an island-based park. A lot of visitors had their own boats. They would be a lot of locals who had their boats and had their favourite island and their favourite dock, and they would love to be in that part of the world.

We are delighted to see many more land-based visitors coming, busloads of people coming from the greater Toronto area, from the Montreal area. As you know, the Kingston-Montreal-Toronto corridor is a marvellous tourism spot. We're pleased that we have a bigger mainland base now to greet those visitors, but it also highlights the importance of partnering with local businesses and tourism operators so that when those people arrive on the mainland, they then have an opportunity to explore the national park, as well as everything the area has to offer, by tour boat and by guided excursions and such.

So it's a good mix.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Great.

Just to carry on some further conversation about costing, would you characterize maintenance of signs as part of routine maintenance that occurs in all national parks?

[Kim St. Claire]

Yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

So when you're talking about a ten-year plan to replace signage based on this change—should it pass through the House—that would be incorporated into your regular maintenance, in addition to the large-sign changes that are occurring up front?

[Kim St. Claire]

Yes, it would. We've been having some initial conversations about what the total costs might be, doing an inventory of signs, and thinking about, okay, it takes our maintenance people so many hours to replace a sign, and thinking about just what we would do. That's where we've come up with a ballpark of costing. But we can provide more details.

The signs themselves are in striated blades, so we're hoping that there will be opportunities to pop off the “Parks Canada” on the top, keep the “Government of Canada” on the bottom, replace the middle part that says “St. Lawrence Islands”, keep “National Park”, and so on.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

In terms of the costing we've received, the approximately $138,000, that's for the main signage that would be replaced out of cycle with routine maintenance. The rest of the costing that you're still looking at deals with coming up with a schedule based on routine maintenance and cost savings based on best methodology to replace it. Would you characterize that as correct?

[Kim St. Claire]

In fact the costing is based on more of a replacement of the sign. That's why it may not cost quite so much as we initially thought, because we might be able to salvage bits and pieces. Some of it will be what we call a capital cost, a one-time purchase of a sign, and then our regular maintenance year to year will be replacing those signs and such.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

To Mr. Ross perhaps, Ms. St. Claire brought up one of the intangible benefits of this name change in that it's creating awareness for Canadians of our national parks system. Perhaps you could speak to how you think this name change might actually impact Canadians from the sense of better connecting urban Canadians with our national parks system though an awareness-building perspective.

[Don Ross]

Thank you for opening the door on that. As a non-government employee, but having been one, changing the name alone isn't enough. It's vital and critical, in bringing awareness to Canadians about their national brand, to invest a bit more in this national park and the organizations that surround it to pull it all together.

Tom was being very gentle about the region in terms of its economic history. Lately we have lost an enormous amount of industry and business throughout the area. Tourism is not able to fill that gap unless there's an investment in it. It's an old, old model there. The visitors to the national park largely have to have boats to get there.

The largest part of the park now...thanks to the input of organizations in the region, it's to create a mainland national park out of that. There is no visitor infrastructure to speak of there. It's time for investment in this national park.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Your time has expired. Thank you very much.

Ms. Duncan, you have the last seven minutes.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Brown for bringing this forward and to the witnesses for coming.

Mr. Brown, as you know, we are supportive of the bill. We feel you have done due diligence. You have consulted with the community. The support from the municipalities and the support of Parks Canada is very clear, as well as from the business community. I appreciate that.

I'll ask a few questions, so you can show the consultation you've done, and I'll ask a bit around finance.

Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about the consultations that took place? You've been clear about the municipalities, first nations, and consultations with the business communities. Is there anything else we should know?

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

This idea was first brought forward in 1978, when I was a kid growing up in the Thousand Islands. I remember the battles that went on prior to that in terms of the potential expropriation of islands, but it became known at that time.

Over the last number of years, people have often been heard referring to the park as the “Thousand Islands National Park”.

When I was elected in 2004, a number of people and chambers of commerce brought it forward to me, and eventually that led to further consultations with Parks Canada to see if there was something they could contribute to the discussion and consultation. I went immediately to the chambers of commerce and the business community and the tourism organizations, and they all were positive about it. Then I requested the municipalities to have discussions at their councils and pass resolutions, if they so chose.

As well, we thought it was important, because of the aboriginal history in our region, to have discussions with the Mohawks. I can get into the history of our region, but prior to the Europeans arriving here in the 1600s, Champlain, LaSalle, Frontenac, all left their impressions, in a written form, of their view of the Thousand Islands. Prior to that the Mohawks had dominated and controlled the region, for who knows how long.

I'll get back to the consultations, which have led to those—

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Yes, the consultations.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

I like to talk about the history.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

It's a good history and we like it.

Tell me about the consultations.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

On the consultations, once all the municipalities had endorsed this, then I proceeded to draft the bill. If you've read the bill, it's pretty simple. It's probably one of the most simple bills to come to Parliament. It basically changes the words “St. Lawrence” to “Thousand”. That's the only real change we're asking for.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Brown, sorry, I have to interrupt.

Basically, this has a history of consultation going back to 2004.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Correct.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Okay, great.

I'll pick up a bit on the finances.

Do we know how many signs there are currently? We must have a record of that.

[Kim St. Claire]

I think 108 is the number I got from the maintenance guys.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Okay, 108. I guess they're of varying sizes. There's got to be a cost associated with each of those signs. Mr. Brown was saying $138,000. Is that correct?

[Kim St. Claire]

I can go back and provide that. That was our initial crack at it, based on how many large signs, how many small ones, how many way-finding signs, as they're called. Some are on the islands, some are on the small islets. As I said, this gives us an opportunity to reconcile our list.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

So it's $138,000 over 10 years, is my understanding.

Perhaps Mr. Brown can then discuss the predicted economic returns in the area. For a one-time cost of $138,000, over 10 years, what is the return on investment in perpetuity?