Environment Committee on Dec. 5th, 2012

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for coming here to meet with us.

One again, although we have heard a number of witnesses, we continue to learn. Most of my questions are for Mr. Brunet.

Mr. Brunet, you said that the role of the federal government is also to create legislation and ensure that it is properly enforced. What we are seeing through a number of bills is an attack on the environment. You mentioned the National Round Table on the Environment and the economy, where climate change is discussed.

What type of regulation undermined urban conservation? How do you think the federal government could improve urban conservation by enacting new legislation or strengthening existing laws? Currently, in Doha, for example, the discussion is mostly focused on climate change.

[Normand Brunet]

I also spoke about maintaining scientific expertise within the federal government. You will not be surprised to hear me say that there are a number of budget restrictions and cuts, and that very competent people are being laid off. This will definitely have an impact on the quality of the environment.

In addition, a number of bills deal, for example, with the law protecting fish habitat. Fish habitat are also a source of biodiversity. If we are dealing with this kind of impact, we cannot expect to see outcomes for biodiversity that are positive overall.

The decisions made here, across the street, have major long-term impacts on the quality and diversity of life, both within and outside our cities.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you.

Let's talk about the Green Municipal Fund. You said that a certain amount of money comes from the federal government. Could some cities withdraw funding for fossil fuels and reinvest those sums into urban conservation, by either putting it all into the Green Municipal Fund, or by creating jobs restoring natural environments? What do you think of that?

[Normand Brunet]

Of course, transfers would be possible. Still, I know that billions of dollars were spent on urban infrastructure. That was at the federal, provincial and municipal levels.

It would be possible to design a similar project, one that would aim not to restore water and sewer lines, but to conserve the city's remaining biodiversity, which is highly threatened. Degraded ecosystems could also be restored.

I don't want to know where the money would come from, but I have the impression that these resources could be freed up to go in this direction. That could lead to a positive economic impact, namely job creation.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Could you tell us more about the commission you mentioned, the one which no longer exists? You were saying that the federal government was involved in urban conservation. How could we reintroduce this type of commission?

[Normand Brunet]

I think an interest should be taken in history. I learned of the existence of this commission while doing research on behalf of the Office of the Auditor General of Canada, research into the management history of the St. Lawrence River over the last 100 years. I think that a Ph.D. thesis by a University of Ottawa researcher was found; he studied the Conservation Commission, which was created in 1909, during a major shift in favour of conserving national parks, which occurred in Canada and the United States. There was a relatively strong conservation movement at the time.

The Government of Canada created the Conservation Commission. It was not strictly urban. It was conservation, in a broad sense. The commission was active for many years. It would seem that it did important and interesting work. At a certain time, the federal government decided that the commission had done enough and abolished it.

Looking back, it might be time to set up this type of commission again. For more details, you can consult the published document written by Michel F. Girard, entitled L’écologisme retrouvé : essor et déclin de la Commission de la conservation du Canada. In my notes, you can find the complete reference. This book was published by the University of Ottawa Press. Taking a few minutes to read it is really worth the time.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

You have ten seconds.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I wanted to talk about the importance of education and raising awareness. Everyone mentioned it. How the federal government could help national parks ...

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Your time has expired.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

... or others find guides that would be better able to speak to children?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you. Your time has expired. Sorry.

Ms. Rempel, you have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel]

I'll be sharing my time with Ms. Ambler, but I wanted to give a preamble.

On behalf of the entire committee, thank all of you for coming. I think everybody here has provided us with some concrete recommendations that the committee can consider. I think what we will do, because of the depth of information that we received today—certainly Mr. Bingley and Mr. Beattie had some very concrete recommendations, and Ms. Power as well—we might follow up with you for some more information as we do our deliberations.

This is just a note of thanks on behalf of everyone for the amount of work that you put into coming up with some very tangible and concrete recommendations that we can consider.

I'll turn it over to Ms. Ambler.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Bingley, does Scouts Canada have any specific urban conservation initiatives? I googled Scouts badges and I wonder if you have a badge that would be relevant to work that children did on urban conservation.

[Mike Bingley]

Certainly we do. We have a number of badges on just about any topic. In our Cub Scout and our Scout programs, we have a conservation badge. We have the World Scout Environment Programme. We have horticulture badges.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

They could all be for urban projects?

[Mike Bingley]

Absolutely. The majority of our groups meet in urban areas. If an eight-year-old is doing a conservation project, he's probably doing it in his own backyard, and that's what we really encourage.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

I'd like to know a bit more about what you mean by “overzealous conservation practices”.

[Mike Bingley]

I was running a program in Waterton Lakes National Park a couple of years ago, and I said to one of the rangers, “We're going to take the kids over here and we're going to roll back a rock.” The ranger said to me, “You're not going to do that in a national park.” I said, “Well, we'll put the rock back”, and he said, “You're not going to do that in a national park.” I asked why, and nobody could give me a really good reason. That's one example.

Fairly often, I'll see environmental educators saying to kids things like, “You can't touch that; nature is delicate.” The reality is, these places aren't museums. I believe they're works of art, but they're works of art that regenerate themselves.

If we're not using them... All we need to do is look at the legacy of Nemiskam National Park, which was de-established in 1947. We chased people out to the point that nobody went there anymore, and somebody said, “This is great farmland; let's use it as farmland.”

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you. That's a great point. These places aren't museums. I like that.

Ms. Power, you mentioned that the Child and Nature Alliance is largely focused on connecting children and their families with nature. In both this study and our study on developing a national conservation plan, one term that came up often was “nature deficit disorder”, meaning that children don't get out enough and they suffer various consequences because of that.

Could you comment on the effects this might have on a child—that is, the mental, physical, and emotional consequences for a child who does not have much exposure to nature?

[Marlene Power]

Yes.

The term “nature deficit disorder” was coined by Richard Louv, who wrote the book Last Child in the Woods. He's actually an honorary chair of the Child and Nature Alliance and runs an organization called The Children and Nature Network in the States. It has a mandate very similar to what we do.

There's increased writing and research being done on the health, social, and economic outcomes of children not connecting to the natural world, and Mike has touched on a lot of them today. In Richard Louv's book, he talks a lot about nature deficit disorder being connected to ADD and ADHD at increasing levels and about diagnoses of those two disorders in school systems. Children aren't being given the opportunity to play and explore and run around and move their bodies in the same way that previous generations were given when they had more outdoor time and when phys ed classes happened both indoors and outdoors. There's definitely the behavioural and medical—

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I am sorry—

[Marlene Power]

I guess I'm done—

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I am so sorry.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Let her have that one last word: behavioural and medical...“disadvantages”?