Environment Committee on April 30th, 2013

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Lowe, you mentioned that a SARA habitat fund might be useful. Do you have a specific recommendation to the committee, please?

[Fawn Jackson]

Sure. Some of those organizations we listed that we work with apply to the habitat stewardship fund for support. Some of their comments have been that it would be really great if some of it could be directed specifically at agriculture, because they see such great opportunity there.

As well, they have concern about the fact that many of these organizations are small organizations and it takes a lot of effort on the paper front to get access to some of those dollars. Any way we could improve that process would help them a lot as well.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Jackson.

Mr. Farwell, Mr. Woodworth mentioned in 2009 there was a change in the program. At the beginning, you mentioned the environmental farm program. Do you have a preference?

[Joe Farwell]

I don't have a real preference at all. I don't think the actual workings of the program have changed that much, it's the delivery and the name of the program that has changed. But we don't really have a preference.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

But you would still like it expanded, is that the recommendation?

[Joe Farwell]

We would still like it expanded.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

You also mentioned shifting water levels. It's not only a problem in the Grand, it's the Great Lakes lowered water level, it's reduced precipitation in the prairies, all linked to climate change. Do you have a specific recommendation to this committee, please?

[Joe Farwell]

My recommendation is that the nation work to actually understand what's happening through monitoring. Within the Grand, we're responding by examining the rainfall patterns and the shifting changes in modelling what could potentially happen. I think that has to happen on a national scale, and really, monitoring is probably a key piece of it.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

So increased research and monitoring at the national level, that's your recommendation?

[Joe Farwell]

Yes, certainly.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Okay, thank you so much.

Mr. Lowe and Ms. Jackson, you've mentioned these are real issues for riparian areas and grasslands. What recommendations would you make to the committee to help you conserve these areas, please, the specific recommendations, your wish list?

[Fawn Jackson]

I think our wish list is going back to that habitat stewardship fund, as well as setting up an ecosystem services program. I think that would enable us to really capitalize on the opportunity for agricultural land to produce the services that the whole public wants.

[Bob Lowe]

There was a study done west of Calgary on riparian area management and what the actual benefit was to the city of Calgary's water supply. This was monetized to the point that this fellow actually came up with a dollar figure that it would cost each resident of the city of Calgary each year in their taxes, if certain things happened to the riparian areas along the rivers. I think a wish list from us to the federal government would be to maybe publicize these points as to what we can do in terms of the actual health of ecosystems or riparian area management through just grass management.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Is that all you want them to do, to promote awareness? Or is there support that they could provide to you so that you can continue to do this?

[Bob Lowe]

If we got into the ecosystem services part, the first thing you have to have is a market. You can't sell something without a market. The federal government would be, in our opinion, the facilitator of the market, for whatever it will be, whether it be clean water, or clean air, or a species, whatever.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

Thanks very much.

We will continue. It's back to Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Granskou, you had talked about land use planning. Every province is a little bit different. Can you give me examples of land use planning that you see as being very successful?

[Mary Granskou]

Sure.

There are emerging models, and then there are models that are now being implemented. They range from the Innu Nation in Newfoundland, working together in Labrador, to setting the table for planning outcomes in Quebec where they have the policy approach called Plan Nord. Ontario's made major commitments. There are some plans that have come into place in Ontario's northern region. There are many more to come. Manitoba has five first nations that have worked with the province to develop Pimachiowin Aki on the east side of Lake Winnipeg.

Others will come on stream in the future. I mentioned Alberta and the Lower Athabaska plan. In the Northwest Territories you have a plan in development with the Dehcho First Nations. There are numerous examples. In British Columbia, they're bringing land management agreements into place, such as with the Kaska Nation and the Taku. Those are a few examples.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

You had talked about the need for making sure all the different partners were at the table. Of all these examples, is there one that sticks out to you as really highlighting the way it should be done?

[Mary Granskou]

There are great examples. The key ingredients, really, are having the right parties at the table and having consistent financial resources available. We see that kind of rolling up and rolling back, which is one of the absolute keys, and then government being there ready to implement. Those are some of the key ingredients.

I don't want to single out one because all models are regionally specific. Each one of them has its own special qualities. It's like trying to pick a favourite child.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Yes. Thank you very much.

Mr. Lowe, we had talked about producers and the role they play in the ecosystem. But would you agree with me that producers are actually an integral part of the ecosystem? They're actually not something that I would see as being foreign to it. They actually play a natural role in it. I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand the difference between, perhaps, ranchers or cattlemen, compared to what we would have with some of our grains and oilseeds producers. Could you also talk a little bit about the water management, and the importance of water management to our cattle producers?

[Bob Lowe]

By and large, the ranching industry is intergenerational. If we were to manage things on a one-year, five-year, or ten-year cycle we would quickly go broke, because we would have no water or grass left. In order for ranching to be profitable, you're looking out 50 or 100 years.

You can drought-proof yourself by grass management and water management to an extent, but not totally. To an extent, good management, just by the way it works, takes into account climate variability. I don't know if I'm answering your question, but we need to manage sustainably or we can't do it.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Oh, absolutely, and the point of the question was that producers themselves, especially ranchers, are an integral part of the actual habitat.

I know that on our own farm we have to make sure that we look after the dugouts and everything. If you were to develop haphazardly, without that 20-year or 50-year vision, you wouldn't have the ability to be ranchers at the end of the day. I think that's the point that we're both trying to make.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[Bob Lowe]

We're as—

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Go ahead.