Environment Committee on May 28th, 2013

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

Right.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

What are some of the best practices that you have found with Ducks Unlimited when you have worked through this process with people who have a real incentive to want to do it? What kinds of things make people want to carry a good start to the next level?

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

It varies regionally. In Atlantic Canada, a lot of landowners just want to have a wetland in their backyard. They want to have a pond, a pair of geese, and they want to use that pond for skating in the winter. When you move into the Prairies, however, you're thinking about annual crops, and most of those landowners don't see any benefit to restoring wetlands on their property. There would have to be a financial incentive for them to restore the wetlands on their property.

Cattle producers, on the other hand, do see some benefits for restoring wetlands in that it provides a water source for cattle and moves the cattle around on the quarter section. We have had some success in working with cattle producers. When they're converting cropland back into grassland, we will often work with them to restore the wetlands at the same time. When working with annual croppers, there's just not a lot of financial incentive for them to restore wetlands. Frankly, it's been very challenging to restore wetlands on the agricultural landscape. In many cases, we buy the land, restore it, and then turn around and sell it, because it is so challenging to get access to the land to restore the wetlands.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

That leads very nicely into the next question I want to ask you. You talked about the restoration of those lands and then selling them, and you talked about the Bryksa purchase as an example of that.

I'm very curious. Who are you selling that restored land to?

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

There are usually two groups of people who will be buying the land. It will be either ranchers, cattle producers who want to use the land for grazing their cows or for hay land, or on the other side of things, depending upon where the property is, it can be a conservation buyer, someone who wants to buy a quarter section to use for recreation, etc.

Those are the two main groups.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Just getting back to the cropland aspect of it, do you believe it's also part of an educational process?

I look at Manitoba, for example, with some of the flooding we've had in the past number of years that has had a really adverse effect on the croplands. It's an educational process to have an understanding among these farmers that the wetlands will actually protect them in a lot of years, that they can get their crops in because they'll have the retention ability, they'll have this natural sponge happening on the land. Actually, over the course of years they will get the same amount of crop off it because there won't be those years when they're so saturated that they can't get crops in, etc.

Is that part of that educational process?

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

Yes, educating the public about the value of wetlands is a big part of what we do. I think we're starting to see some of that across the Prairies with the recent flood events we've had. We're starting to hear more talk about retaining the wetlands we have, with farmers doing it on their own, talking about the impacts they've had with upstream drainage as the water then flows onto their land. You're starting to see farmers talking to farmers about the need to retain those wetlands.

So yes, it's public education, letting people know what the benefits are of wetlands and really changing the psyche of society about what wetlands mean, that they're not simply wastelands and they do provide benefits to all of society.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

Dr. Abiola, I just want to ask quickly about your work at Olds College. I also had the benefit of being there. I've actually been there twice now, and it's great to see the work you're doing there.

I want to ask you about the potential use for wetlands, using wetlands instead of our traditional grey infrastructure in our urban areas. Is there real potential for that? Is that something that's being researched at Olds College?

[Dr. Abimbola Abiola]

Yes, this is one of the areas that we are researching here, looking at the use of wetlands for treatment of grey water or polluted stormwater, in terms of increasing water quality so that it can be used for something else. Fortunately, we already have four municipalities that are working with us in that particular area.

In my presentation I was talking about science-based information. We get the work done here. The data collected from this is then implemented in other areas. Strathmore is an example of a community that is actually benefiting already from this type of work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Toet. Your time is up.

We'll move now to Ms. Duncan for seven minutes.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to everyone. You've provided us with terrific background and really good ideas, and I'd just like to dig a little more deeply into those, if I may.

One of the recommendations was to implement laws and regulations that protect remaining wetland habitat in Canada. I'd like to know what that would look like for you, and what would be your wish list to this committee?

[Jim Brennan]

We have a wetland base across the country that has ebbed and flowed a little bit, but generally has been in decline for many years.

It was interesting reading the federal policy document in preparation for today's presentation, because it talks about where Canada was at 22 years ago in terms of numbers of wetlands on the landscape. We note from our own data that the level of wetland loss has increased since that policy document was created.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Where were we 22 years ago, and where are we today?

[Jim Brennan]

I think the numbers we use are about 70% to 75%. It really depends on the province you're in.

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

It's probably important to note that Canada does not have a comprehensive wetland inventory.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

This is the information I want.

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

There is no way to really assess how many wetlands we have or may have lost. Unlike the United States, which does have a comprehensive wetland inventory that is repeated through time, they know how many wetlands they currently have and how many they've lost; Canada does not have a wetland inventory.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Should a recommendation to this committee therefore be that we have a national wetland inventory?

[Dr. Karla Guyn]

Yes.

[Jim Brennan]

Absolutely.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Terrific. Okay, that's one. What else do we need?

[Jim Brennan]

We would like to see, as I mentioned earlier, significant net gains in habitat. The only way to do that is to incentivize it and to.... It costs money, obviously, to restore wetlands. It's one of the lessons we've learned, and one of the reasons we're active in landscapes that are not developed in terms of agriculture or in terms of industrial developments, such as the north, is to not replicate those mistakes that have been made in southern landscapes, and to maintain those landscapes, or at least the most important areas of those landscapes, as they are.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Okay. In terms of these laws and regulations, very specifically, what are you looking for?

[Greg Siekaniec]

I would like to add that we should be looking at an absolute no net loss of wetland type regulation and/or policy with a mitigation sequence that requires avoid, minimize, and then mitigate the loss, fully recognizing that you are not going to be able to stop all wetland loss. There is a need for development, and there will continue to be, but with an adequate sequence that requires you to work towards the no net loss, and in many places a restoration that provides for a net gain.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Dr. Abiola also recommended a no net loss policy. So one is the inventory; the second is no net loss.

What else are we looking for in terms of laws and regulations?