I'm familiar with the challenges of it.
It started with FSC, or FSC was a big part of it, and then chain of custody and product tracking became a conversation that has become part of the vernacular, so to speak, of all certification programs. It's to some extent being requested or demanded by the marketplace.
The challenges associated with it have been put to all of the certification standards. At the end of the day, we want to be able to highlight the fact that we are conserving habitat and doing the right thing for species, but not in a way that is so prescriptive that it makes costs go through the roof or that is just a process that feeds on itself. It's something that we're continuing to work on as an industry as we deal with each of the certification standards, and it's something that is germane to the conversation with respect to species at risk.
Certification still is a voluntary activity. Chain of custody is voluntary to the extent that it's not government legislated, but the parallels exist. We're working with organizations such as the voluntary standards organizations in a similar vein to the way that we would be thinking about the application of legislative pieces such as SARA.