Evidence of meeting #18 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phosphorus.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Representative, Forum for Leadership on Water
Mercury is mostly transported into the lakes now through the atmosphere, so it's atmospheric deposition. One of the major sources is coal-fired thermal power plants in the U.S., and a measurable source is from China.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you.
We'll move now to our last questions of the second round. We go to Mr. McKay for five minutes.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Mr. Chair, it does amaze me what excites Mr. Woodworth.
5:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Yes, a 30% cut at Environment Canada is a very exciting thing. I don't know how reducing your budget by 30%, and your staffing by 15%, and your climate change by 77% can get much more exciting than that. For those of you looking for help from the Government of Canada on monitoring data, good luck.
Now, I thought I'd give Dr. Taylor the opportunity to tell us what biomagnification means.
5:20 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Biology, University of Waterloo
Biomagnification is the process where a hydrophobic contaminant, but also mercury, increases up a food chain with each trophic level. The predator has more than the prey; its predator has even more, and that's why we call it biomagnification.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Okay.
One thing I've learned over the course of these few meetings is that I started out with the view that zebra mussels were good, and I've come around to the view that maybe they're bad. I take it that the big issue is that they concentrate the phosphorus and that's not generally a good thing. Looking at eutrophication in the Laurentian Great Lakes map here, I would have thought there'd be some massive bloom coming out of Toronto of some kind or another. Is there any reason that there is not a bloom out of Toronto? Is the bloom off the rose in Toronto?
5:20 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Biology, University of Waterloo
I don't know about the water quality in Toronto harbour. I haven't heard of major algal blooms there, but there are nearshore fouling issues all along the north shore of Lake Ontario. We had funding for some time from OPG because of the nuclear power plants being clogged by nearshore algae, and taste and odour problems.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
And the big runoffs when there's a flood event, the huge runoff—
5:20 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Biology, University of Waterloo
The Humber River bloom, and so forth, yes.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
That's all in Mr. Trottier's riding, so it's entirely his fault. We in Scarborough contribute nothing to that.
5:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Again, whether you're excited or whether you're depressed, you're saying your last point here is that there's no management strategy at this point to reduce mussels. In your fantasy world, is there any management strategy that would reduce mussels?
5:20 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Biology, University of Waterloo
There isn't one right now, but I could imagine having imaginative fisheries scientists in the room and asking what eats mussels and what can we do in terms of management of the fishery to enhance those species. That's not even being discussed as far as I'm aware. It's not even being considered, let alone something more drastic like toxics.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
No, you don't want to go there. That creates other problems.
5:20 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Biology, University of Waterloo
Probably not. I wouldn't advocate it.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Okay.
Dr. Ridal, your presentation ends with public engagement.
One of the things that's true in Ontario in particular is that around lakes there's a 66-foot reservation in favour of the municipality. You can buy that 66 feet back from the municipality. You have to get it surveyed and all the rest of the stuff and pay people like Mr. Woodworth outrageous sums of money to do so, but at this point it has been a passive approach by various municipalities. Yet one of the points that all of you make is that the runoff is getting to the point where you're adding phosphorus in a massive quantity in these ever-increasing events. Has it been discussed, or is there any discussion or any thought with respect to municipalities becoming less passive, exercising their right of way, and mandating something like some growth of shrubs or bushes, or whatever, so the runoff isn't right into the lake?
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence River Institute of Environmental Sciences
I think it depends upon where you live.
Locally, in a very agricultural base in the municipalities around Cornwall, they would not be very aggressive with respect to that, because they know where their voter base is, and you're losing revenue when you have setbacks.
Other areas that have a stronger tourism base, for example, as a base of the economy, will be.... Probably the best example right now is Lake Simcoe. To draw that into the public engagement piece, Lake Simcoe's phosphorus strategy is a set document which sets out the technical requirements, but which also creates a communication piece to say, “Okay, folks, we're going to do this together.” That is one of the strengths of that kind of “here's the plan” approach.
They have done some very good work in Simcoe, and Bay of Quinte actually has these numbers too, in setting out exactly from what different source each phosphorus is and where the phosphorus is coming from, how many megatonnes of phosphorus is coming from different places. In some places, the sewage treatment plant is actually a minor source, and more is coming in from the agricultural areas. That's where you then have a municipality coming forward and saying, “Yes, we'd like to see these improvements.”
This is the sort of thing that best management practice is. A lot of it is low-hanging fruit. A lot of it is just little things, but it all adds up.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you, Dr. Ridal.
Thanks to all of our witnesses for being here today and for your expert testimony, and also to all of our members for great questions.
I'm going to declare the meeting adjourned.
