Environment Committee on May 29th, 2014

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

So it's not in the estimates. That would have been my follow-up.

[Carol Najm]

Not in the estimates.... It's going forward.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

You're at 3:01, Ms. Leslie.

We're moving now to Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I only have 2:59 now.

I'm going to go back to my thread again.

Mr. Hamilton, when you answered my question you immediately segued into the concept of adaptation to extreme weather events and so on. I want to zero in on the issue of whether, if Canada reduces CO2 emissions by a significant amount, will we ameliorate extreme weather events?

[Bob Hamilton]

I think I started my answer by saying, no. We're 2% of the total global emissions. I think your example was if we went down to 1%; I guess that would have an impact, but it's not going to change the course of events.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay, so crippling the Canadian economy with a carbon tax or putting a price on carbon and so on, I can very well see, possibly, in the world that the opposition parties inhabit, they'll believe that carbon emissions will go down. That may be the case, but what you're basically saying is if we reduce carbon emissions in Canada, it's basically going to have no effect.

[Bob Hamilton]

Can I just nuance that a little bit? But, yes, you're right, the actions in Canada alone are going to have a modest impact. We're 2%. The actions of Canada, in conjunction with other countries and in the global forum, can have a big effect. If you get China and the U.S. doing things, then you could actually accomplish something.

But the other point that you're making is that it's important for us. The economic impacts of what we do are an important consideration.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I understand.

[Bob Hamilton]

But that's what makes this tricky. You see it in how we've approached the auto sector, how we've approached the coal-fired electricity, where you're trying to balance the environmental objective that you want, but recognizing the economic impact.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I understand that, but, again, I want to go back to the simple point, to zero in on it, because our government is being criticized all the time on the climate change issue. You're basically saying if we did everything that the opposition demanded us to do, demanded of the Canadian economy in terms of significantly reducing our standard of living while at the same time reducing carbon emissions, in terms of Canada itself, and what we're doing in Canada here, it will have little or no effect on, for example, extreme weather events, or indeed, climate change in Canada?

[Bob Hamilton]

All I can do is repeat the facts that you have said, which is we are 2% of global emissions, roughly, so that's how much of the problem we're contributing to. If you reduce that, it's going to have a relatively modest impact overall.

But I would just let the facts speak for themselves. I'm not going to comment on what policy is right or wrong, but the facts are just as you've described.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I'm not talking policy. I'm talking atmosphere or chemistry here, so it's not policy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Your time is over.

I want to remind committee members, however, of the statement that made by our minister on page 13. We're not only addressing issues in Canada but also committing $1.2 billion to support a range of climate change projects in 60 developing countries. This is part of our international efforts as well. That's part of the equation.

We need to move now, committee members, to the actual voting on the estimates. You have this in the briefing notes from the Library of Parliament, pages 1 and 2, under Environment Canada and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, as well as Parks Canada.

I'm going to proceed down through these.

ENVIRONMENT

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$687,165,091

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$52,789,150

Vote 10—Grants and contributions..........$107,286,053

(Votes 1, 5, and 10 agreed to on division)

CANADIAN ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AGENCY

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$28,227,786

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

PARKS CANADA AGENCY

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$451,381,399

Vote 5—Payments to the new Parks and Historic Sites Account..........$3,500,000

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

Shall I report the main estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

I will report these main estimates to the House on Monday when I file the report.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

You're going to do a double-dipper.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Yes, I am.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Do you get extra pay for that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Double time.

I will do so when I report the results of our great study on Great Lakes water quality. I think that concludes our time for today.

Thank you to our—

Mr. Hamilton is having a last word.

[Bob Hamilton]

Can I just have 30 seconds? I think I may have committed to providing something that I can't provide.

There was a question earlier, I believe from Mr. Choquette, who asked if I could attribute the actions of provinces to the GHG reductions. I can certainly show how much the provinces' GHG emissions are, but I don't think I can actually provide the attribution of “they did this and that produced that change”. I will give the information that I can, but I didn't want to mislead the committee in saying that I would be able to provide that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Hamilton.

Again, my thanks to Mr. Hamilton, Ms. Najm, Mr. Hallman, and Alan Latourelle. Thank you for being here today.

Thank you, committee members. The meeting is adjourned.