Evidence of meeting #26 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was energy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Architect, As an Individual
Yes, and I think every change that respects the environment is a real concern for our future generations.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
You are in agreement that it's a good idea for Canada to phase out its coal-fired electricity plants in the near future.
Architect, As an Individual
Well, anything that preserves the air—I'm thinking of my great grandchildren. I would hope my generation would create an environment for them so that they can breath the air and not get illnesses or diseases from the pollution we're creating.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Thank you very much, and thank you for your testimony today.
Mr. Nickel, I actually had a question for you. Can you hear me?
Executive Advisor, BioWaste to Energy for Canada Integration Initiative
Go ahead.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Perfect. I was hoping you could share with us a little bit about the role the government has and could play in the investment your company is making and some of the research and development it has taken to get to this stage. I've been there, and it's quite an interesting project.
Executive Advisor, BioWaste to Energy for Canada Integration Initiative
Thank you, sir.
Absolutely, when you're dealing with technology that's perceived as new, the capital community, as you may well know, applies a heavy premium in terms of risk. That means that money gets very expensive and sometimes that expense is out of reach for the development of projects based on new technology.
So any assistance that removes the risk or perceived risk from the capital community, or takes the place and takes some of that risk away from the capital community, is where we see and have seen and have been the beneficiaries, multiple times over the last decade, of assistance from all levels of government.
I hope that answers your question. We're talking about capital assistance. We're talking about research and development funding, and we're talking about specific policy instruments that enable certain aspects of what we're doing to have things done a little bit better, a little bit more cost effectively. One I would personally advocate for is carbon pricing.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
One of the things we've been looking at is some of the different models. For instance, my colleague often refers to the land use framework out in the County of Vermilion River. Could you talk to us a little bit about the role that the Government of Alberta has played, and as well, the municipal level, in your project?
Executive Advisor, BioWaste to Energy for Canada Integration Initiative
The municipal level was actually really important in the initial stages of development of the biorefinery project. Without the municipal involvement, not a lot of the forward motion would have happened initially. They have purchasing power, so they were able to say, “Hey, let's just buy some of this electricity”. They didn't buy it at a huge premium, but they bought it, which allowed some of the funding to flow from the capital side. There was less market risk presented, thanks to the municipalities.
The province has been absolutely instrumental. Over the last decade they had some programs, first under agriculture and now in the Department of Energy. They're all sunsetting on March 31, 2016, but they are absolutely instrumental in getting the $100 million on the ground at the Growing Power Hairy Hill facility as well at the BECii collocated facility. The provincial government came forward with close to one-fifth of that, if my recollection is correct.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Would you say that these projects have put Alberta on the cutting edge?
Executive Advisor, BioWaste to Energy for Canada Integration Initiative
I'd say they put Alberta a step further forward than it was. Technology-wise I can speak very clearly for Himark. In 2008 Himark was the world leader in technology for anaerobic digestion. We remain at the head of the pack, and that is thanks very much to the help that we have gotten over the years.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Okay, we can move, for our last question, to Mr. Choquette, for five minutes, please.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I, too, will be addressing Mr. Nickel.
I think the federal government, in dealing with waste management, should start asking some questions about the polluter-pay principle, which, by the way, is part of sustainable development management. Unfortunately, we don't have any sustainable development legislation, but we do have a strategy at least.
You talked about the polluter-pay principle and the price of carbon. President Obama stressed the importance of a major shift when it comes to tackling climate change and adapting accordingly.
You mentioned a price on carbon, but what exactly are you proposing?
Executive Advisor, BioWaste to Energy for Canada Integration Initiative
Put very simply, there needs to be a price on carbon. Whichever instrument we use to do that is less important than its actual implementation with aggressiveness and ferocity. What we do by talking about it is create a policy risk in the eyes of the capital community, if we have endless debate about it rather than any action, even flawed action. So let's move forward, if I can encourage us to do that. Thank you.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you kindly.
So it could be one of your recommendations to the committee as part of this study.
Mr. Chiasson and Mr. Walters, what do you think of the polluter-pay principle? Do you support it? How could it be applied in a way to help you manage waste?
Vice-President, Public Affairs and Corporate Communications, Plasco Energy Group Inc.
Speaking for our company, Plasco, I think what Mr. Nickel has expressed is actually where we need to begin. There needs to be a step forward to recognize that we need to deal with greenhouse gases. I think what specific instrument is chosen is secondary. We know, in our particular case, with landfill and methanes, you potentially replace a fossil fuel in terms of energy generation, so in the early stages of new technology, where the technologies are being commercialized, creating jobs and investment, those programs are in place.
If I can, I'll make one additional short comment. I think in our case we sometimes wonder in terms of government operations themselves. When you think of the Government of Canada and all of the waste that's generated from government operations and buildings, could there be some interest in looking at where that waste goes today? I think a possible leadership role might be whether the government can serve as a role model in somehow making sure that there's as much recycling of those materials as possible, possibly energy generation from residual materials, to show that there's a model that can work in terms of government operations themselves. That's something to maybe think about.
Project Manager, Municipal Business Development, Tomlinson Environmental Services
The only thing I would add to that is that the discussion so far has been about the role of the federal government or other governments. I say, quite frankly, the challenge ahead of us is really for us to hit our targets, whatever they may be. In my area, that's waste diversion initiatives. It's going to take a collaborative effort.
I think the federal and provincial governments and all the other governments and other stakeholders are an integral part of this whole, creating the vision right down to the point of implementation. There's no sense of me going off into a corner and doing my thing and going to you after. I need your input now. I need your input ahead of the curve. I want to have your input and I want to have you as part of that group that helps me, helps us as a community, shape the vision and talk about the implementation strategy.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
All right.
I want to thank all of the witnesses for your time and for your patience with our system here with the votes being called in the middle of our committee.
Thank you to our committee members for your questions.
Again, thank you, especially to Mr. Nickel from the west.
The meeting is adjourned.