Environment Committee on Nov. 5th, 2014

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

We'll leave that up to the auspices of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

It will depend on the witness list.

We should technically move in camera for this motion. We normally do committee business in camera.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

In the spirit of openness, Mr. Chair, we're prepared to deal with this now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

All in favour of the motion, raise your hand.

(Motion agreed to)

We'll move to Nááts’ihch’oh, Bill S-5, if and when it passes and is referred here.

To our witnesses, thank you for being here today, and thank you for your input in our earlier study. It was much appreciated. Have a great day.

We will now move directly to inviting Mr. Michael Martin to join us at the table.

Mr. Martin, thank you for your patience. Welcome to our meeting. Please begin with your opening statement, and then we'll have some questions from committee members.

[Michael Martin, Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am honoured to appear before you today as the Deputy Minister of the Environment. Over the last 30 years, I have been proud to serve Canada as a public servant both in Ottawa and overseas.

Throughout my career, I have always believed deeply in the values of public service, and I have enjoyed the opportunities given to me to contribute as a public servant to Canada. It is therefore very gratifying and humbling to be asked to serve as the deputy head of an institution that is dedicated to building a clean, safe and sustainable environment for all Canadians.

The great strength of Environment Canada is its people. Our scientists, engineers, regulators, policy analysts, meteorologists, wildlife managers, enforcement officers, and internal services staff bring tremendous knowledge and professional expertise to their work.

An important part of my job is to provide the leadership necessary to achieve a healthy, high-performing organization that promotes excellence in everything we do. Building on the tremendous work of my predecessors, and with the encouragement and support of my colleagues and the Clerk of the Privy Council, I'm confident that I will be successful in this task. I'm excited by these challenges before me, and I look forward to working with the committee over the coming years as we address them.

Mr. Chair, I would be pleased to take your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Mr. Martin.

Again, thanks for your patience with us, as we took longer for clause-by-clause consideration.

We are ready to open it up for questions. We'll begin with the Conservative side and move through our normal routine. I'm going to limit it to five-minute rounds, using the prerogative of the chair, just because we have such a limited amount of time. We may not need all of that time, but I just want to give more opportunity for more questions.

Mr. Sopuck, for five minutes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Martin, in your new role, have you been briefed on the state of Canada's environment yet, in terms of Canada's environmental indicators?

[Michael Martin]

Yes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

What is your view of the trend of Canada's environmental indicators? I'm thinking of things like air quality, water quality, biodiversity, and so on. In which direction is Canada going?

[Michael Martin]

As you may know, the department publishes a series of indicators that cover all media. Overall, and if you look in the international context, Canada's environmental performance is strong. There are challenges, however, and the data suggests where those challenges lie.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Yes, I certainly agree.

To me, the biggest challenges lie in the area of landscape conservation. One thing that concerns me is that I don't think Environment Canada spends enough time on landscape conservation. By that I mean wetland conservation, biodiversity conservation, and so on.

Would that be something that you could take a look at, re-prioritizing Environment Canada's activities and some of its spending?

[Michael Martin]

We are seeking to strengthen the scientific work we do in landscape science. As you know, we are also implementing efforts to improve wetland restoration under the national conservation plan. There is also further work to explore the scope for wetlands to function as carbon sinks, as well as to provide other ecological values.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I could not agree more.

I know that all Canadians are the clients of your department, but there is a stakeholder group for Environment Canada that I don't think is given enough emphasis by Environment Canada. That's not a pejorative comment; I think it's more tradition than anything else. The Canadian Wildlife Service administers the migratory birds hunting regulations, so Canada's waterfowl hunters are a very significant stakeholder in your department. They were instrumental in creating the single largest conservation program in North America's history, the North American waterfowl management plan. Your department also manages the humane trap research facility in Vegreville, Alberta.

Again, I don't want to put you on the spot with a policy question, because policy is for elected officials, but in terms of the continuation of those programs.... Are you familiar with the activities of CWS in terms of migratory bird hunting and the Vegreville trap site?

[Michael Martin]

Yes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

The humane trap facility is very, very important to Canada's trapping community, in the sense that our access to European markets depends on the continued development of humane trapping activities. Do you see that program continuing over the long term?

[Michael Martin]

That would be a question for the minister, Mr. Sopuck, in terms of whether any program in the department should continue over the long term. But I would be happy to familiarize myself more with the current state of work in that area.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

In terms of biodiversity conservation, indeed all landscape conservation, there are two approaches you can use. One is the heavy-handed regulatory approach, and the other is the provision of incentives to people on the land to contribute to landscape conservation. Can you talk about the difference between the two approaches and perhaps the cases in which one is more effective than the other, and vice versa?

[Michael Martin]

Without dealing with a specific case—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

No, no specifics are necessary.

[Michael Martin]

—I think there are a couple of important points.

Environment Canada has a set of tools, which you have described. We have the statutory tools provided to us by the Species at Risk Act, among other legislation. We also have programmatic tools, as well as scientific capability that we use.

Depending on what you are trying to achieve, for example, the protection of critical habitat, all of those tools may be relevant. Ultimately, the evidence shows that strong partnerships with provinces, with land managers, and with those who have an interest in conservation are essential to improve outcomes for biodiversity.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

Mr. Choquette, please go ahead.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Martin, I would like to congratulate you on your appointment as deputy minister. I am happy you are in this role.

I looked at your resumé, and I see that you have environmental experience. You had the opportunity to testify before the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development in 2007, 2008 and 2009. You were even Canada's chief negotiator and ambassador for climate change for the negotiations leading up to the Copenhagen climate conference.

Could you tell us about your experience that will help you fill this role, including your experience in the fight against climate change?

[Michael Martin]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed, I just told you about my experience and career in climate change. It is true that it was good experience that helped me better understand this challenge to strengthen a global system that will help improve the situation as a result of this problem. I have a valuable perspective because of that. Still, I need to strengthen that experience with the knowledge of my colleagues and the current activities to address the negotiations that are ongoing, as you know.