Environment Committee on April 23rd, 2015

[Nancy Daigneault]

—the governments have been very helpful. The AgriMarketing program, as Mr. Cahill pointed out, has committed millions of dollars over the last 10 years to helping market Canadian ranched fur overseas and within North America. The trap research facility that the Canadian government has supported for the last couple of decades has been key to helping Canada be a leader in international trap research.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

The Liberals are passing? Or maybe that's how it goes?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

No, it goes back to you.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay, the one tenth of the time. I've got it.

It's great to be here. I was on this committee for many years and it's nice to come back and see that the analysts haven't changed. The clerk has changed, but the analysts are the same; it's good to see old friends here at the table.

I'm a hunter and a farm boy from rural Alberta. I've been the member of Parliament for Wetaskiwin for almost 10 years now. I certainly enjoy outdoor pursuits and outdoor activities. I spent many years as a national park warden, and I've been a conservation officer and park ranger in the province of Alberta. I certainly enjoy the outdoor way of life.

The first question I have is to ask Mr. Dakins if he's aware of the Government of Canada's proposed support in budget 2015 for the sealing industry, and the $5.7 million over five years for helping with market access for seal products? What might your thoughts be about that proposed budget item?

[Dion Dakins]

Certainly we're quite pleased to see that it's becoming a budget item, the protection and re-establishment of the right of Canadians to harvest and market seal products. However, we have been in dialogue for a few years now about the significant challenges that are levied against the sector. We feel that $1.1 million is a start, but we'll actually need to sit down and evaluate this with the Canadian government. Will the plan be robust enough? Will these be enough resources to change the public opinion that has been furthered by the anti-use agenda?

Canadians have invested a lot of time and energy, particularly in the harvesting sector, to meet a high animal welfare standard. We would like to see an aggressive approach to re-establish markets that have been lost and that are under current threat by the anti-use agenda.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I'd like to talk a little bit about that anti-use agenda. It's kind of a common theme here in Ottawa that when people who are members of Parliament, particularly in other parties from mine, don't seem to understand or grasp the significance of an issue, the only solution they have is to ban something. We see this through the private member's bill that was proposed by the NDP, as my friend Bob Sopuck put out a little bit earlier in the committee. There have been other bills, to ban horse slaughter and things like that, that we've seen from the NDP. We all know what happened in the United States when they tried that. We had horses abandoned, with massive suffering by a lot of these horses, because there was no humane way to now dispose of them or to put them down at the end of their life or the end of their use, and so on.

So it seems to be a common theme. I don't understand why something as significant as trapping.... Our nation was founded on the fur trade. I mean, this is what built our country, for crying out loud. It's part of our national heritage and our identity. It's not just the aboriginal people but also the Métis. Marcien LeBlanc, a Métis elder from my riding, goes all across Alberta. He's constantly talking about the value of this and getting young people re-connected with the land, getting them re-connected with the outdoors. It's absolutely a vital service.

I want to talk about a private member's bill that is being brought forward by my colleague Garry Breitkreuz. I think most people in the outdoor community have known this for quite some time. This is Bill C-655. I'm hoping it has enough time to pass.

I'd like to ask you, Robert, Greg, and Nancy, what your thoughts are on this bill, because it would actually codify federally and make it a Criminal Code offence for people to interfere with lawful hunting, trapping, and fishing. I'm wondering what your thoughts might be on that legislation.

I'll start with you, Greg.

[Gregory Thompson]

Thank you.

The reaction certainly from the community broadly has been very positive to that initiative. As a hunter, I can also attest to the importance associated with respect for licensed and trained activities that as a hunter I'm legitimately engaged in. The same perspective applies with respect to licensed and regulated trapping. There's certainly very strong support for Mr. Breitkreuz's proposal going forward.

If I may, I'd like to go back to Dion's reference to the budget item and the commitment to exploring further market development. Another component that, certainly from the institute's perspective, we're looking for is a continuation of the core funding agreements that we have in place with Environment Canada, with the Government of Canada, with respect to the maintenance of our AIHTS research program on trap research and the associated work that Nancy mentioned with respect to the Vegreville facility, which is where we do a great deal of our trap testing and research. That funding going forward will be very important to us from the point of view of maintaining our ability to implement the international agreement and continue to sustain our access into international markets, particularly in Europe.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Fantastic.

Robert, would you like to comment?

[Robert Cahill]

Yes, certainly. Thank you.

I think in some ways it's unfortunate that we need a bill that would protect people from undertaking legitimate activities that are traditional, lawful, cultural, and beneficial to families and communities. However, I think given the climate we're in today, there are people who don't accept this and have that tolerance. To bring back great Canadian values of tolerance and respect, I think it's an important statement to make.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay, good.

Nancy?

[Nancy Daigneault]

The feedback I've heard on the private member's bill has generally been very positive. As Mr. Cahill said, it's unfortunate that we need a bill such as this to permit people to undertake a legal activity in Canada—the activity that really founded this nation. It is being well received in the community.

To look at it from a broader perspective, perhaps it could be expanded to the agricultural sector, the fur farming sector in Canada. There are many fur farmers in Canada who feel threatened by animal rights extremists. There have been incidents of fur farm break-ins and releases of animals. I think the ranch fur farming community in Canada would welcome a similar bill that would grant them greater protections as well.

I know I'm going out on a limb a little bit, because we're not looking at the agricultural sector here, but given the fact that we are discussing it, I think it's appropriate to raise that.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I've been told I have 60 seconds, so Jim, the question I have for you—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

Six seconds.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

—is that as a former conservation officer, I've used traps to trap bears and other things—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

Mr. Calkins, your time is finished.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Maybe I'll get a chance to get back to him.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

You might.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

We'll go down that road.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Megan Leslie]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McKay.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and you certainly are an improvement over the previous chair and let's hope you keep that position, because otherwise I'm in line.

Mr. Howie, I watched with amusement Mr. Sopuck's anxiety as you gave your testimony. Apparently your major sin is that you were not a witness recommended by the Conservative party and you are clearly not singing from the same song sheet as other witnesses. It's a strange concept that we should have debate in this country. Mr. Sopuck raised a couple of issues and then went on to question other members more favourable to his viewpoint.

You didn't get a chance to respond to Mr. Sopuck's allegations, one of which, I think, had something to do with biologists. Do you want to take a moment to try to respond to Mr. Sopuck's issues?

[Michael Howie]

Thank you very much for that offer, Mr. McKay. In the past, Mr. Sopuck has called me a radical in the House of Commons and I did not have a chance to defend myself on that either during the RCMP fur hat debacle.

I think it's important to point out that I am not the HSUS, Mr. Sopuck. I make one-third of what I am worth on the open markets because I believe in this work. I donate most of my money to other non-profits and charities, so please, I would appreciate if you not make insinuations about my value in that manner.

I think it's also important to note that 70% of all the fur we've been talking about today comes from the farmed sector, and yet we're discussing trapping as if it is the only location where fur is coming from. It should further be noted that the government has attempted, and has spent millions of dollars, in fact, promoting fur, and people are still not buying it in Canada. It would seem a bad business decision to me to continue to hock a product that no one wants, so either change the market or change the products. I think it should also be noted that we are interested in solutions. Yes, ideally, I would like to see the end of trapping. I would also like to see the end of poverty and war. That does not mean I am not interested in getting some extra food for the homeless here and there.

To say that we are outright opposed to everything you stand for is a proclamation on your end, Mr. Sopuck, not mine. Granted, you also believe that 39% is a majority, so we'll move on from that.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Howie.

I didn't know you had such fondness for Mr. Sopuck. Had I known that I probably would have given you more time.

[Michael Howie]

He inspires it in everybody he meets for sure.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I did want to raise the following with the other witnesses, with Mr. Cahill in particular, because I do like to hear both sides. As you were giving your testimony, I was thinking that I didn't know anybody who wears fur anymore. When I first got married, it was considered important that I buy the wife a fur coat. Now my wife would be horrified if I did something like that. I don't think that we are anything other than typical. I was listening to your recitation of market figures and I found the stuff about Ukraine and Russia quite fascinating.

Is Mr. Howie right that the chief problem that the market has is that Canadians and others have decided that they don't want to have fur? I noted your example of the Canada Goose company, which does seem to be an exception.