Evidence of meeting #51 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was animals.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Cahill  Senior Vice President, North American Fur Auctions
Gregory Thompson  Advisor, Fur Institute of Canada
Jim Gibb  Chair, Communications Committee, Fur Institute of Canada
Dion Dakins  Chair, Sealing Committee, Fur Institute of Canada
Nancy Daigneault  Vice President, Americas, International Fur Federation
Michael Howie  Director of Digital Content and Special Projects, The Association for the Protection of Fur-Bearing Animals

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Mr. Thompson, we tend to talk about money in terms of trapping and the outdoor way of life, the sustainable-use way of life, but much of that is about more than just money. Can you talk about the cultural and spiritual importance to trapping communities because they have the pride of work, the pride of craftsmanship, and the freedom to live a way of life that many of us can only wish we could live.

9:35 a.m.

Advisor, Fur Institute of Canada

Gregory Thompson

Thank you for that question.

I've had the privilege of working in a number of Arctic communities in my career, both as a consultant and as a wildlife manager with the Government of Canada. The experience of interviewing hunters and trappers in remote communities has always been a very exciting opportunity for me, to learn more about that strong real connection that individuals, extended families and, indeed, communities have with the natural resources around them.

Self-sufficiency is a key theme for all of us, and it's particularly evident in the case of hunting and fishing families with whom I've spent a fair amount of time in the bush, and have travelled with, acquiring country food, sharing that country food, celebrating the value of that country food, and sustaining that commitment with those animals that have helped their families and their forebears not only survive but thrive, in some cases in extremely hostile Arctic environments.

There's a tremendous amount of anthropological data that's in place with respect to the spiritual connection that human beings have with wild animals and the animals they harvest. That's particularly the case with hunting communities worldwide. In Canada, as was mentioned earlier, half our trappers are aboriginal, and those individuals certainly have testified extensively with respect to the importance they attach toward wild food and trapping in this country.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Megan Leslie

Thanks so much, and thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

We'll move on to Mr. Bevington.

9:35 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

Thanks.

It's an interesting discussion here for sure. Having grown up in the north, I've eaten most of these animals. I wear moosehide clothing a lot. I don't wear it in Ottawa because I wear a suit. That's what people expect me to wear here, and I'm perfectly comfortable with it because that's the uniform of Ottawa. When I'm at home, I'll wear whatever is comfortable for me. When I was growing up as a child, I wore mukluks almost everyday because that's the culture that I lived in.

I see a lot of what you're saying here. I'm beginning to wonder whether trappers in Canada are getting the rough end of the stick from the government. It sounds like in other countries in the world there's a lot of money put into hazard trapping or nuisance trapping, and there's a lot of effort put in by trappers into protecting the environment, but I'm curious as to what level of federal support there is for any of this stuff in Canada.

The other question I have is what would happen to the market for Canadian furs? Is this fur that's being nuisance-trapped in other countries worthwhile putting on the market? What would happen to the market for fur if all those muskrats came on the market next year?

April 23rd, 2015 / 9:35 a.m.

Senior Vice President, North American Fur Auctions

Robert Cahill

Much of the fur that's trapped in Europe is for pest control, so they don't have seasons. They have largely licensed trappers and there's not nearly the level of enforcement or monitoring that we have here, and they have completely lost their understanding of how to prepare fur for the market.

Fifteen years ago, and before that for many years, there was a fur auction in Leipzig, Germany that sold much of the European wild furs, but with the anti-trapping, anti-fur movement, it was all driven underground. So now those people are 30 or 40 years away from having any tradition of using the fur. Right now we're actually looking at that. Part of the reason I was going over there was to investigate that opportunity.

What would the impact be? Right now we're having a difficult time selling the furs we have. The prices are at low levels. However, we also know—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

That's good enough on that part. Can you answer the question about the federal government and its role in supporting hunters and trappers across the country? I'd open that up to anyone.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Megan Leslie

Mr. Gibb, do you want to say something?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Communications Committee, Fur Institute of Canada

Jim Gibb

I'd like to take a shot at it.

Over the last 30 years the federal government has put a lot of money into trap research. I get the other end of the stick when I'm talking to my trapper buddies and they ask why they have to change a tool and why they have to continuously keep upgrading their tools as they continue to trap. But it's because of the continued support from the federal government that we've been able to modernize our traps, and our traps are looked at as the best in the world. They are comparable—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

Can you put a yearly dollar number to it?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Communications Committee, Fur Institute of Canada

Jim Gibb

I think it was in my presentation. Right now one of the funding sources we get is from the Ministry of Environment for trap research in our facility in Vegreville, Alberta. I think it's roughly $300,000.

The other thing that's critical for us—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

Does anyone else have any information on this? I want to share this dialogue, as I only have seven minutes.

9:40 a.m.

Director of Digital Content and Special Projects, The Association for the Protection of Fur-Bearing Animals

Michael Howie

The majority of this kind of nuisance trapping is happening in municipalities where there are other solutions. In Ontario, if you say to the Ministry of Natural Resources that there's a coyote in my backyard, they give you a fact sheet and a number to call for your local trapper. The trappers are being given a great deal of business through the governments.

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Communications Committee, Fur Institute of Canada

Jim Gibb

I would like to also add the fact that we have the Agreement on International Humane Trapping Standards by our federal government. It's probably one of the smartest trade agreements we've ever had because it allows us to have access to markets in the world. Without those markets, you'd probably make me a millionaire overnight because it would switch to nuisance wildlife control work. Definitely the support of our federal government in making that trade agreement has been a huge win-win for our fur industry.

9:40 a.m.

Senior Vice President, North American Fur Auctions

Robert Cahill

There are programs for Agriculture Canada in fact that support the promotion of farmed furs in Canada, of mink and fox in particular, that our member associations benefit from, but there are not similar kinds of programs to help wild fur be promoted internationally. I think that is deficient right now.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

How about the domestic market for the sale of furs? Is there any promotion of that? What percentage of Canadian furs are sold in Canada?

9:40 a.m.

Senior Vice President, North American Fur Auctions

Robert Cahill

To Canadians and used domestically, it's extremely low right now.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT

Is there any federal program to enhance that? To me that seems to be the logical place to go, our own domestic market.

9:40 a.m.

Director of Digital Content and Special Projects, The Association for the Protection of Fur-Bearing Animals

Michael Howie

To me the logic is that Canadians have said they don't really want fur, sir, and that is why they are not buying it.

9:40 a.m.

Senior Vice President, North American Fur Auctions

Robert Cahill

If you ask Canada Goose, they're now selling significant numbers of coats in Canada, and they're all trimmed with Canadian coyote primarily. We are talking with Canada Goose on issues that they want in terms of traceability and ensuring that they have that solid supply of the fur that their customers are looking for.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Megan Leslie

I just want to point out that perhaps Mr. Dakins would like to jump in.

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Sealing Committee, Fur Institute of Canada

Dion Dakins

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Bevington, when it comes to public opinion polling, we've done a lot of it at the Fur Institute of Canada on the values of Canadians around the use of particularly seals and wild fur. What we've found is that Canadians feel that if we're going to harvest these animals, then they should be entitled to a high animal welfare outcome and the products should be used.

I would like to recognize that in the current budget there is a $1.1 million allocation towards seal market development. That is absolutely necessary. We feel that the value actually needs to be increased, and we would like to continue the dialogue with the Government of Canada around what the real requirements for wild fur and for seal advancement are. When we look here in Newfoundland and Labrador, not only do we hunt seals but we also hunt moose, particularly in our wild international park, Gros Morne. The responsibility of Canada to hunt these moose for a proper forest succession is essential. Those products are not commercially traded. People do use the hides, we tan them in our facility here in Newfoundland and Labrador. Everybody consumes 100% of the meat.

Canadians support hunting, they support trapping, and in fact they feel that we should be commercially using the products, not wasting them.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Megan Leslie

Thanks very much, Mr. Bevington.

9:40 a.m.

Vice President, Americas, International Fur Federation

Nancy Daigneault

If I could just jump in a little bit about government support for the fur industry in Canada—

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Megan Leslie

If you can do it really quickly, Ms. Daigneault.