Environment Committee on April 28th, 2015

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Crabbe, you made the statement that hunting and trapping was probably the best balancing opportunity for species in Saskatchewan. Where I live, what we have seen, especially with the bison when we had a problem with wolves, which eventually died off because of mange, is that the populations interact with themselves.

On what you're saying about hunting and trapping, is that because you don't have a full ecosystem available for those animals, and that when there is a lot of intrusion, such as farming and other activities, it's very difficult to have the sort of nature-balancing process that occurs in other areas?

[Darrell Crabbe]

I would definitely point out that species populations ebb and flow all the time. I've always made a comment to our biologists that we're very effective at managing ungulates and other game species, but we're not very effective at managing predators. Our predator numbers in Saskatchewan are almost always above what we would consider to be the optimum level. Right now with bears and wolves, we're at well over 30% of what would be considered a 10-year normal average.

We talked about the agricultural process. In the 1950s and 1960s there were no white-tailed deer in Saskatchewan. We didn't have racoons. We didn't have wild turkeys. We didn't have a lot of the species that are prevalent today. It was the agricultural process they followed that came here and that landscape was changing and continues to do so. As those things occur, certain species take great advantage of them and some unfortunately don't do as well.

It's an ebb and flow process. That's why we need good wildlife managers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you.

We'll move now to Mr. Calkins, for five minutes, please.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to be here at the environment committee again.

I am an Alberta MP and I've been a hunter and a fisher my whole life and a former conservation officer in the province of Alberta. I'm proud to say I'm one of the 24,000 members of the Fish and Game Association in Lacombe, Alberta. I work quite a bit with Dave Powell— I'm sure, Mr. Lowry, you know Dave very well—and have a great relationship there as we work together to enhance fishing, hunting, and trapping opportunities, not only for Albertans but for all Canadians.

I would say quickly that while there might not be a direct position, I believe there are several organizations across the west on the Prime Minister's hunting and angling advisory panel.

Mr. Lowry, or Mr. Crabbe, or the gentleman from the Yukon, Mr. Zealand, I'm wondering if you have seen—from having people either directly from your organization or through other organizations that you closely work with—any benefits of that advisory panel.

I'll start with Mr. Crabbe.

[Darrell Crabbe]

Absolutely. I sit on the HAAP and as with most advisory panels and other types of organizations like that, it took some before we started to have some traction. I can tell you that all of the participants on there right now in our discussions before, after, and during the HAAP meetings are finding some real positive benefits starting to develop. I'm looking forward to our meeting in June. I think there are going to be some great things that are developed through that process.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Fantastic.

Mr. Lowry, do you have any comments on that particular body?

[Wayne Lowry]

Yes. Of course we have representation on there as well. I attended the first meeting of HAAP a few years ago.

My comments would be around wildlife being managed provincially. A lot of times we get tunnel vision with regard to our province, but we have to realize that it extends beyond that. This gives a great forum to see what others are doing and also to collectively manage the landscape outside of provincial borders.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

That's a fantastic point and probably an unintended consequence or benefit to an organization like that, whether they are dealing with chronic wasting disease or other kinds of issues that don't know any borders when it comes to provincial jurisdiction.

Gentlemen, you are all aware I'm assuming of the budget proposal in budget 2015 that seeks to put $10 million a year into the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program. I know there are a number of organizations within the province of Alberta, specifically the Alberta Conservation Association, that have had some success in applying for these funds.

I'm wondering if any of the three of you want to talk about some of the benefits of what is seemingly a small amount of money federally. This is bringing that money back to deal with inland fisheries, or what I would call freshwater fisheries, and some of the way that money can be magnified or compounded to do great local projects to the benefit of folks who are going fishing, taking their kids fishing in local trout ponds, and so on.

Can you talk a little bit about some of the opportunities that might be available due to this increased funding?

I'll start with Mr. Lowry this time.

[Wayne Lowry]

I'll talk about one project specifically that has benefited from this. As you know in southern Alberta we have a lot of water bodies that are created due to the irrigation that's done there. We have a lot of reservoirs down there, and there's never been any attention paid to the shorelines and the habitat around the shorelines. It's typically been used for grazing, and the cattle are coming right down to the water.

But in conjunction with Alberta Conservation Association, we are working to get those habitats fenced off and to do off-site watering off of those projects so that the habitat around those reservoirs can actually develop into really good habitat for not only the fish species but also the wildlife that uses the habitat around those bodies as well.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

That's fantastic. I know Cows and Fish does a great job of dealing with some of those things in the province.

I'll just leave my last comment—I'm assuming I'm just about out of time—to my friend in the Yukon, Mr. Zealand.

Mr. Zealand, as an Albertan, I have the privilege of hooking my truck onto my fifth-wheel trailer and then hooking a second trailer onto that, whether it's my quads for hunting or a boat to go to the lake and take my family fishing. I have the good fortune of being able to drive over to Mr. Crabbe's province of Saskatchewan. I can do the same thing in Montana. I can do the same thing in Idaho.

Unfortunately, the province of British Columbia does not allow this in certain areas. Now there's a good reason not to allow it in certain areas, but I've driven the Alaska Highway and I've been to the fine territory of the Yukon to do some these things. It would sure be great if we could get some pressure put on, whether it's the B.C. government or the Yukon government, to allow these double units to be towed. That would expand economic benefits from people in Alberta who do have some disposable income to spend on these kinds of things and broaden the area in which folks can do that hunting and fishing they love to do so much.

I'll just leave that with you, and I want to thank you, gentlemen, for coming to committee today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins. Your time is up. I appreciate your comments.

We'll move now to Ms. Leslie for five minutes.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses.

I would like to start off by picking up on something Mr. Sopuck mentioned in his first line of questions, talking about hunters being the unsung heroes of conservation. I'm paraphrasing a bit. We're here as federal legislators and we're trying to figure out what we need to do as federal legislators or whether we need to do anything when it comes to hunting and trapping.

On that issue of conservation, you're not the only witnesses who have talked about the kinds of conservation work that hunters and trappers are doing across Canada. It should be celebrated, for sure. I'm wondering, though, if you can tell us about some of the barriers and some of the obstacles to the conservation work that you're doing. What is it that we need to know is really difficult about the conservation work and what role can the federal government take to make it less difficult?

I'll go through the list starting with Mr. Zealand.

[Gordon Zealand]

I'd say for us that when these programs becomes available, the various requirements for participation in them should be as simple as possible. Even if you look at the fisheries fund, for example, you often find that things get so complicated that various groups will bow out because the requirements to do the bookkeeping, and what have you, for a particular program are so onerous that you just don't have the time to put into it. So that would be one suggestion I would put forward.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thanks. Administration seems to be an issue.

Mr. Lowry, what do you think are some of the barriers to your group's ability to do conservation?

[Wayne Lowry]

For myself, I would say that the greatest barrier is the competing interests. When we have agriculture and oil and gas activities requiring an expanded land base to carry on and to expand their businesses per se, the dollars that support those things far outweigh the dollars that we as conservationists can raise to compete with them on a dollars-and-cents basis for a site with an ecological or environmental benefit.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Can I ask a quick follow-up on that point? What would be a solution that could be offered? Point-blank, is it money? Is it facilitation? Is it through consultation? What would help?

[Wayne Lowry]

What would help is a regulatory body that would look at particular properties and activities and assess the greatest value that the particular site or landscape could offer. There have been notable increases in ecological values, and if we could get those values brought up higher on the importance scale, then we could further conserve those types of habitats and environments.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. Crabbe, what are some of the barriers to conservation that you see?

[Darrell Crabbe]

I certainly agree with both of my counterparts. Red tape is a significant issue, to the point where, in Saskatchewan, when the fisheries opportunities came up with the federal government, we tried to apply, but because at that point we received much of our funding from the fish and wildlife development fund, which was considered funding by the provincial government level, we were not allowed to access any of those dollars. To this day, we haven't accessed any. We now provide governance for that fish and wildlife development fund. We presently have four applications in, but I'm very fortunate that I have someone in our office who likes to write proposals. It's a difficult process.

The other thing is that I completely agree with competition with industry. We have to balance. In Saskatchewan, we have the potash industry, oil and gas, farming, and whatever, but the environmental concerns certainly come second. I would say that we are pretty lucky here. We deal quite well with most of those industries and benefit from them, but I think there's a recognition that environmental impacts and environmental concerns, in many cases, are secondary to industrial needs.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thanks to all of you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you.

We'll move to our last questioner, at least at this point. No one else is on the list.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thanks.

Mr. Crabbe, you talked about women being the fastest-growing segment of society at taking up hunting and the shooting sports. I have the honour of being an instructor at the Manitoba Wildlife Federation's “Becoming an Outdoors-Woman” weekend, and it's a fascinating experience. Can you speculate as to why women are taking up hunting and the shooting sports in a way that they didn't decades ago?

[Darrell Crabbe]

It's interesting. I just hired a new education coordinator. Her first day was yesterday. In all of our interviews, she pointed out very accurately that she grew up through this whole process.

I hate to give much credit to The Hunger Games, but we have a program here in Saskatchewan called “National Archery in the Schools”. We have over 260 schools in the program and 25,000 to 30,000 kids participating. The majority of them are young women. When we try to determine from them why they're enjoying the sport so much, they quite often point to the influence that movie had on them. They fully believe that they are every bit as capable.

I can tell you that we just had our provincials last weekend. We had over a thousand kids compete. Sixty per cent of them were females, and all the top shooters were females. I think some of the barriers have finally started to drop. We notice that a lot of those kids who are in grade 12 or whatever are starting to get into bowhunting now, so it's playing out exactly as we had hoped.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I think that we traditionalists tend to underestimate the effect of the media. The movie A River Runs Through It did wonders for fly-fishing, so we cannot underestimate the importance of mass media for our activity.

Mr. Crabbe, I know that the SWF participates in many habitat programs and Saskatchewan is a major participant in the North American waterfowl management plan. Can you talk about the North American waterfowl management plan in terms of conservation activities in Saskatchewan?

[Darrell Crabbe]

A lot of people probably don't realize that our pothole system here in Saskatchewan, as I mentioned before, contributes to, if I am not mistaken, about 80% of the duck population in North America. Having the support of NAWMP, if I can refer to it as that, in Saskatchewan, and the support of all the other interests that are in there, has really turned that whole process around. You probably know better than most, Mr. Sopuck, what a turnaround has occurred in the last 30 years in Saskatchewan, and therefore, in North America with duck production because of NAWMP and its activities.