Evidence of meeting #62 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

James Fortune  Chief Operating Officer, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Mark Butler  Policy Director, Ecology Action Centre

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Following up on Mr. Sopuck's and Mr. Toet's conversations, we have wetlands giving ecological benefits and carbon sequestration, nutrient runoff, as Mr. Toet pointed out, runoff generally—all that sort of stuff. We have the rural communities providing urban and near urban communities, and possibly other rural communities, with a significant benefit for which nobody is getting paid. That's going to carry on for the foreseeable future.

Absent a carbon pricing regime, be it at the federal level or provincial level, how do you propose that those communities or individual landowners—assuming there was a will—be paid for their significant benefit, other than if you will through the goodwill of corporations? Everybody does everything for a variety of motivations, maybe even greenwash and things of that nature. Outside of a carbon pricing regime, how do you price that benefit?

10:15 a.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Fortune

It's challenging.

There are some examples of attempts, or I think programs and policies that support it. There are managed land and conservation land tax incentive programs in many provinces. Those are provided to farmers, rural landowners. If you retain these habitats on your landscape, you don't pay property tax on them. That's an incentive. That's a recognition of the public benefit that's accruing and coming off the property, the fact that now, since it's not a productive part of my farm landscape, I'm not paying taxes on it. That's the current mechanism that's in place.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I guess that kind of loads it on the taxpayer there, as opposed to loading it on the broader society, those who are using carbon or getting the benefit of not having their homes flooded and things of that nature, which is one public policy response, I suppose. Do you have any other suggestions?

10:15 a.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Fortune

I can't separate the taxpayers from everybody, basically, except there's some age...like we don't start paying until we start consuming, but you know, it's all there if the marketplace is there, if there's recognition.... Carbon pricing is an example, and for water licensing and pricing and other landscapes, there are some issues around those. If there's no market for it, then it becomes this public good and you're into a situation where the community, Canada, would have to think about this and ask, “Are we willing to pay for this?”

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Then it comes out of general revenues, basically, as opposed to specifically generated revenues.

10:15 a.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Ducks Unlimited Canada

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I have a final question. I'll direct this first to Mr. Butler.

The CRA has had some enthusiasm, shall we say, for auditing environmental groups in particular but other charitable groups as well. I'm wondering whether your group has had any particular notice from the CRA, and whether you have adjusted any of your behaviours or activities with respect to the advocacy component of what you do.

10:15 a.m.

Policy Director, Ecology Action Centre

Mark Butler

The answer to the first question is yes. We were audited by the CRA. It began in I think the fall of 2011. Two years later, we successfully completed that audit. There are some I guess minor changes we have to make, particularly around tracking.

We don't mind being audited. The opportunity to be a charity comes with a certain responsibility. However, if we feel that the audits are being targeted or that there's some unfairness in the application of the law, I think that is discouraging and disturbing, because we feel that protecting nature and the work we do is important and of value to Canadians.

As a result, we still want to do the work we do. If we can't speak out for nature, then we have to ask ourselves why we exist. We're still trying to do that, but as a result of the audit, it is taking up more of our resources.

June 16th, 2015 / 10:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

In terms of—

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you, Mr. McKay.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I'd dearly love to ask how many resources.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Okay. I don't have any other speakers on the list, unless the committee wants to go another round. I'm open to that.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I'm all for it.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I don't see any others raising their hands, so I want to thank Mr. Fortune and Mr. Butler very much for being with us today.

Thank you for the input and, more importantly, thank you for the ongoing work you do day in and day out to preserve our environmental resources. We really do appreciate it. Thank you.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.