Evidence of meeting #10 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Richard Botham  Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance
Les Linklater  Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
David Boyd  Adjunct Professor, Resource and Environmental Management, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
Julie Gelfand  Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Miodrag Jovanovic  Director, Personal Income Tax, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Cynara Corbin

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Of which month?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

June.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

We might not even be here.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We might not, but it means that we're progressing in some orderly manner in terms of the subject that we're trying to do. We're hoping that we're going to get the Federal Sustainability Development Act out of the way and that we will have our drafting instructions for the protected areas done and to staff, which will then be bringing that back on June 16 to us. That's the plan.

Mr. Gerretsen.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Yes, I've understood that from the first time that you said it.

My only concern is that, in eliminating a meeting from CEPA and not shifting it all.... Because that's essentially what you're doing, correct?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I'm actually eliminating one of the meetings at the first end of the CEPA, but I'm taking some of the days from the climate change study and moving it to CEPA.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Perfect.

It's not that I want to take away from the climate change. I just think that if we're going to shift, everything shifts, so that the climate change one just starts after, in the order by which we all sat and discussed that we would do this stuff.

Pardon me?

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Which we then changed.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

No, you changed it at the subcommittee.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Okay. Hold on.

What he's saying is that we did not do the Federal Sustainability Development Act in the order that we had originally agreed. We did come off of our game plan, and we're open to come off it again, but only if there's agreement around the table to do that. It's not going to be 100%.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Cullen, are you going to be happy if we can get to it before the end of June, or is June 7 your deadline?

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Here's the thing. I have the forestry industry in my office wondering if I care about forestry right now. We're over time, so I'll make this quick.

There are two things happening at once. One is the very definition of bad faith negotiations, which is the following. You make concessions and you make agreements, and then you revisit them and then revisit them again and then undo them. The concessions that I made to support unanimously other priorities of other parties were done in that good faith—fine.

The second piece is around the climate change issue itself, which I do think is incredibly pressing. It's very good that the government has this process going on, but the government also went to Paris and made a 1.5 degree agreement with no economic analysis and no understanding of even what the federal government's contribution to climate change is.

Lo and behold, it seems like that would be important for all of us to understand and appreciate. I've lost that argument, and that's fine.

I have to go. The committee will make the decision on the calendar as they see fit. I will move a motion that we study climate change this spring. Vote against it, which I was trying to avoid for you. So be it.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I don't think we want—

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It's this, Chair. I made concessions. We all move pieces around and they're all done in good faith and in good humour and I like you, but the way the committee has got to be able to function is that when we set things down, we set things down. The constant revisiting and moving and new inventions of the day for drafting, which is not something I've ever heard of from a committee before, is fine. But don't pretend that this is what we agreed to all along. I've made those concessions and that's all fine and well.

What I was hoping to avoid for you is the vote against the motion that the environment and climate change committee studies climate change in a six-month period in which the government has said, it's your top priority. I didn't think it was all that contentious, but apparently it is because you can't seem to get to it. It's always being bumped. The idea of putting it on the last day or the second last day of the House sitting is well and good. It's like saying, maybe, possibly, we'll see what happens. That's fine too.

I just want to know what the rules are and how we're going to negotiate these things so that I can have some sort of clarity as to whether I invest any time in the conversation or not, rather than investing the time and making the concessions three times, and then having it revisited again and again. Surprisingly always having the thing I'm trying to push forward fall to the bottom of the list has been consistent throughout this. Forgive me if I sound a bit aggravated about it but how many conversations about it have been on the committee calendar? It's just incredible.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

How do you want to resolve this?

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I want you guys to just put the calendar together as you see fit.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Make your case.

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

No, absolutely. If you want to bump the climate to the fall, I've made my case. I have to go.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Nathan, if I can, because I've tried to have some conversations with you about this.

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Absolutely. We've had very good conversations.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

And we have.

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I appreciate that.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I'm trying very hard to be incredibly respectful of everybody's time and also what they want to get done here. I think we have understood that the Federal Sustainability Development Act has the potential to really help us with climate change and bending the curve and getting that conversation going on how Canada is going, what Canada is going to do, and how it's going to meet its goals and objectives and that this is a tool to do that. I think we are moving forward in the direction and trying to bend the curve by getting our government house in order. That's where I'm at.

It's not that we don't care about getting to climate change discussions and how we make our commitments.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

I think we've been having the climate change discussion.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I think the point is that we're trying to get this done and we think this may be a fundamental piece.

Please don't say that we don't care about climate change because I think all of us around this table care very much.