Evidence of meeting #100 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was done.
A video is available from Parliament.
Green
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Again, I think that the made-in-Manitoba climate change and green plan was done after your report, but I would recommend that you have a look at it because it's probably the most comprehensive response to climate change in Canada. What I like about that particular plan is that it has a lot of on-the-ground programming built in.
I think Mr. Bossio alluded to the importance of on-the-ground programming, with things like carbon sequestration, land management, and so on.
On page 6, you talked about carbon pricing as the economic mechanism intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, so my assumption is that either a cap-and-trade system or a carbon tax is something that you generally support.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It's not for me to be supportive or not of that.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
What we're providing is information on what governments have done in order to put a price on carbon and there are two different systems.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Right. Well, I still take it to mean that you're probably supportive of a price on carbon, but—
My question is—and I asked the environment minister this and was very disappointed by the answer I didn't get—under the $50 carbon tax being proposed by this government, and given that your report is all about measure, measure, measure, and how are we doing and how quickly are we getting there.... Well, the “there” is a number, so what I am looking for are numbers and so far I'm not getting them.
Under the $50 carbon tax, can you give us the number that indicates how much greenhouse gas emissions in Canada will be reduced when that tax is implemented across Canada?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I think that's a wonderful question.
We have not turned our attention to that. It could potentially be something that we could look at in our next audits on this issue. We have not looked at that at this time.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Well, it seems that nobody has, and again, this is casting no aspersions on you or your office, given the role you play. You basically analyze what you're given, and that's the role of your office. However, the fact that there is no number attached to carbon pricing, in terms of reduced emissions, I find absolutely shocking.
In my own career in environmental management, it's a truism that every environmental action or decision should have a measurable environmental result that you can look at and count. In this particular case, in terms of a carbon tax or a carbon price, in terms of an actual number, in terms of reduced emissions, we don't seem to have it. I find that absolutely astonishing.
I will now turn the rest of my time over to Monsieur Godin.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Can I just say something, Mr. Sopuck?
Across the country we found that that we were not aware of how many greenhouse gas emissions were associated with all of the actions taken. So your comment applies to what we found across the country.
Conservative
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Okay.
Commissioner, it's always a pleasure to meet you.
You understand that we have skimmed through this report and that it is still fresh in our memory. That being said, I am disappointed to see that not all provinces and territories participated in this report, which discredits it somewhat.
I am an MP from the province of Quebec. Why didn't Quebec participate in this report?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Quebec was a partner in this project. In the wings, the province took part in creating the questions, and we worked as a team. Quebec participated throughout in the work undertaken by Ms. Leach and those behind the scenes.
Conservative
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Quebec's Office of the Auditor General decided not to carry out an audit because it had already done some for climate change. For more information, you would have to ask Quebec's Office of the Auditor General. They were partners, but not participants.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You spoke about all of Canada. Based on what you said, you have data for all territories and for all provinces, and we can trust these figures, even if some provinces and territories weren't as involved as others.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Quebec was the only province that did not participate in that.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You also stated in your presentation that 5 out of 19 federal departments had carried out a climate change risk assessment. That therefore means that 63% of federal departments have not done their job.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
In fact, 14 out of 19 federal departments had not done a comprehensive assessment of the risks associated with climate change.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
That is 14 out of 19 departments.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
My calculations posited that there were 12 departments out of 19, and so the percentage is even higher. It is somewhat disappointing to see that federal departments are not involved and are not aware. I've already said so, but I found it unfortunate that departments react when a report is tabled, yet do nothing to change subsequently. I am somewhat disappointed. Even if it means repeating myself over and over again, I will double down and convey my message so that one day, we find solutions and have departments that are accountable for their decisions as well as their inaction.
You also stated that Canada still has a lot to do. Here is the million dollar question: are we on the right track?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
At the end of my presentation, I indicated that we have developed the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change. This is one of the best plans that we have had to date to tackle climate change. It brings in every single department and every single province and territory. What we need now are measures to implement this plan.
