Evidence of meeting #105 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Ms. Collins, you heard Mr. Kenyon and, I believe, most of the other witnesses as well applaud the elimination of the standing test. Does that improve predictability and certainty in the resource industry?
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canada West Foundation
I don't think it's a question of the standing test alone. I think that an appropriate process to replace the standing test, where that process is well known and understood, is not a problem. I don't think the standing test alone is the issue here.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canada West Foundation
It should. I mean, what's adding to the uncertainty is that, consultation, instead of serving its process of ensuring that people are heard and have an ability to influence the decision, has the ability to just become a barrier.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
You talked about where during a process political decisions are made. Can you be more specific about the concerns you have on the timing of these political decisions that get made throughout the process?
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canada West Foundation
There are two issues. One is the actual timeline allotted for each of the phases. Especially in the front end, there's a lot of room where it's this many days and it can be extended 90 days, to another 90 days, and to another, kind of ad infinitum. There should be less ability to extend the process in terms of timing. Overall, this timing is longer than what we currently experience in most cases.
Then there's the notion of where the go or no-go decisions are made.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Bill C-69 significantly expands the factors that must be considered in coming to a decision on any particular project, including the impact the project will have on Canada's greenhouse gas emission targets.
Do you believe that the expanded list of factors will improve the process, slow down the process...? What impact will that have on resource projects in Canada?
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canada West Foundation
I don't think the expanded factors is an issue, because right now they are looking at expanded factors. I think what has been the issue so far is that the scope has not been clear of what's required in this process. De facto, these processes currently are looking at a broader range of issues rather than the specific environmental ones. They are looking at social, cultural, and other issues as well.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Are there other provisions in Bill C-69 that you believe undermine Canada's competitiveness in the resource sector?
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canada West Foundation
As I said, I don't think rigorous assessment is unwelcome. Canada right now has one of the most rigorous assessment processes in the world. The challenge is the implementation of that process and what that means. The fact that decisions are revisited and revisited and revisited makes it an impossibility for anyone to make an investment decision.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Mr. Kenyon, just a couple of minutes ago you made a statement, which I'll just paraphrase. I hope I don't have you wrong. I would like some comments on what you meant by it. You said that there were much larger issues at play than first nations participating in pipeline projects.
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Pembina Institute
The much larger issues that first nations are facing in this country are social and economic issues. That's what I'm referring to there, with no reference to the pipeline issue.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
You don't believe that economic opportunity is a big issue for first nations?
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Pembina Institute
I absolutely entirely believe that economic opportunity is a great part of it. For example, Pembina Institute is working with northern first nation communities who are looking at bringing energy self-sufficiency to their communities. We've been running this process for three years. We had 200 people at a conference in Yellowknife discussing this and in Whitehorse in the last two years. This is about empowering and enabling first nations to choose their own direction when it comes to energy as well as economic and social self-sufficiency.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right.
We had Mr. Ernie Crey here. My colleague Mr. Sopuck referred to his testimony. He highlighted the fact that the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain expansion project represents very significant economic opportunity, yet we have groups in British Columbia and across the country who are opposing the pipeline basically for ideological reasons. I think earlier you mentioned that you believe it's not only wind energy, solar energy, and other alternative clean energy that must be considered. You talked about the whole mix of energy generation in Canada; we have to look at it in a holisitic way.
Could you expand a bit on what you meant by that?
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Pembina Institute
We're at a nexus point globally when it comes to energy. We're at a point where we have revolutionary new technologies for extracting gas and oil through hydraulic fracturing. We also have revolutionary technologies coming from renewables, batteries, and merging technologies. My children will have things that we never had in terms of options for energy.
What we're struggling with in this country is what our current economy is based on and how we make that transition possible without leaving ourselves behind and leaving a lot of people behind, because in all fairness, there are a lot of people in this country who absolutely make a good living from our economy and our energy sector. What we really need to be debating instead of particular projects is where this country is going when it comes to energy and how we adapt.
I'm seeing a red card, which usually gets me trumped off the field in soccer.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Pembina Institute
Did you want me to tear off my jersey and have a temper tantrum?
12:25 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
