Environment Committee on May 5th, 2016

[Alison Woodley]

I can start.

Every year we do make budget recommendations as part of the Green Budget Coalition, which is a coalition of national environmental groups. Every year, for many years, we have been making recommendations, basically focused on what is needed to complete the existing system.

I don't have the numbers in my head. We have made recommendations that are far beyond the money that was allocated, because we recognize that this is the money that's needed to actually complete the system. We need to be moving on all fronts in order to get these things going, because they do take time.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Would that be a document you could get to us?

[Alison Woodley]

Absolutely. We've also made recommendations on ecological integrity and science-based management funding.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Sabine, do you have any thoughts on that?

[Sabine Jessen]

Yes, we do our work through the Green Budget Coalition, and making budget recommendations. I would echo what Alison has said, that this is the place to look. We're already starting to work on next year's budget.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Great. Thank you.

To the NCC, I'd like to find out your thoughts, from the work you do, on whether you have the right suite of tools from government to support the work you do for leveraging funds. Are there any things in the basket of tools you'd like to have available that you don't currently have access to and would help further acquisition for conservation purposes?

[John Lounds]

There are other tools that could be brought to bear on assisting with conservation in the private landscape. I hadn't expected this question today, but we can provide you with a few more of those.

One key aspect, though, of the work we do is that for every property we secure, whether through donation or purchase, we set aside an endowment fund. One of our guarantees needs to be that this will happen for the long term. While we're not self-insured like government is, we have to set aside these funds and manage them properly. One of the stipulations in our current agreement is that the endowment money is not to be matched by federal government money. It's matched in terms of whether we raise it, but no federal funds can go to that.

I think we've been able to work through that ourselves, but for land trusts and other smaller groups across the country, this one's a bigger issue. Through the eco-gift program and others, you have many smaller groups who are utilizing those federal programs for the tax benefits for the individuals who give, but we also want to make sure those groups are in place for the long term as well, so they can take care of those properties.

We're working to figure out how we do a better job with our land trust support efforts across the country, and that's a big part of what we think needs to be done. On the technical pieces that we've talked to finance about before, we could certainly provide you with those.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'd be interested in seeing that, as I think the committee would. Part of the reason I raised it is that we had an experience recently in British Columbia where one of the smaller conservancies had to sell off property. That's always a concern when you have other organizations and other parcels of land being protected. How do we ensure they're part of that long-term piece?

Any thoughts you could provide to help deal with those types of issues would be appreciated.

[John Lounds]

We had the same concern and actually got involved. We identified the highest-priority properties from a conservation point of view. We now have taken those properties over to make sure they remain in conservation status.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Okay.

I want to go back to Alison. We heard from Parks Canada about its systems plan and the work that's happening on that. From a CPAWS perspective—I think we touched a bit on it, but perhaps you can comment a bit more specifically—what would the next phase of protected areas look like within the federal government once we achieve that initial round of conversation that's been set out through the Parks Canada systems plan? Where can we go next? What should we be looking to?

[Alison Woodley]

I agree with Mr. Lounds' comment that there isn't an integrated approach at the federal level and there should be.

The national parks systems plan specifically has served us well, but it's designed on a 1970s model. It is about representation only, and it predates the whole area of conservation science. We do need to build on that. It's important to have that representativity element of representing and having a park in each natural region of the country, but we need to build beyond that, because we now know that our parks need to be connected together if they're going to conserve nature. They need to be nested within broader landscapes and seascapes.

I think the next iteration needs to look at integrating, and in the face of climate change that becomes all the more important. Many of our parks are too small, and they need to be bigger. We need to build that ecosystem science into the next round, and then figure out how the various tools fit together in an integrated way. What is the role of national parks? What is the role of national wildlife areas? How do they fit together to have a complementary landscape approach to conservation, and then how do they fit with provincial, territorial, and indigenous tools? That's why we need these spatial plans, so we can figure out how they all fit together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

I have to suspend this panel discussion to bring in the next panel. It's been an incredibly insightful opportunity to hear from you and what you have to share with us.

There were a lot of questions raised. There may be some more questions that didn't have a chance to be raised. Our clerk has offered that if you give them to her today, she can get them to the panel members.

I'm sure you would be interested in helping us get the answers to those questions.

You also identified a couple of manuals—I think around how much is enough—and a couple of books that you said we all have. I don't think we do all have them. I want to make sure....

They were emailed around to everybody?

[Sabine Jessen]

They were our reports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay, but you have some nice booklets there, and I don't know if you want to share them with us. I think it would be kind of nice to make notes in the margins and so on, if anybody wants them. I wouldn't mind having one. If you would like to share those with us, that would be great.

Okay, go ahead.

[John Lounds]

Shall we send the material to you or the clerk?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Everything for the committee goes through our clerk, Cynara Corbin.

Thank you all again, and thank you for joining us via video conference.

We'll just suspend for a few minutes while we bring the other panel members up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

I'd like to have everybody take their seats please. We're going to run out of time for questioning if we don't get going with the panel. You will all be very disappointed with me when I cut the second panel off with a round of questioning.

Welcome to our second panel for today. We have three groups with us today. I have Steven Nitah.

You're going to have to help me. Please say your name for me so that I can say it right.

[Chief Steven Nitah, Lead negotiator of Thaidene Nene, Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation]

It’s “Nee-tah”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay, welcome and thank you for joining us.

From the Indigenous Leadership Initiative of the International Boreal Conservation Campaign, we have Dave Porter and Valerie Courtois.

Is that how I should say your name?

[Valerie Courtois, Director, Indigenous Leadership Initiative of the International Boreal Conservation Campaign]

It's “Koor-twa”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

And we have Alan Latourelle.

Thank you all very much for joining us today. We'll get started with Mr. Nitah.

[Chief Steven Nitah]

[Witness speaks in Dene]

In my language, I just said thank you very much to all of my relations for giving me the time to present to you today.

My name is Steven Nitah. I'm the lead negotiator for the Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation in our negotiations and discussions with both the Government of Canada and the Government of Northwest Territories towards the establishment of Thaidene Nëné as a national park reserve.

The Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation has been advancing this initiative to foster ecological integrity, cultural continuity, and economic sustainability in the core of its homeland at the East Arm of the Great Slave Lake. This landscape is called Thaidene Nëné, “Land of the Ancestors”.

Thaidene Nëné includes an abrupt transition from boreal forest to tundra, including the dramatic cliffs, islands, and waters of the East Arm of Great Slave Lake, and canyons and falls of many clear water rivers. Part of the largest roadless landscape in North America, this still intact ecosystem features some of the cleanest and deepest freshwater in the world, and some of the last free-ranging migratory caribou herds.

The Lutsel K’e Denesoline use Thaidene Nëné every day for subsistence, recreation, and cultural practice. Our connection to this area is best articulated in our Thaidene Nëné vision statement which was agreed to both by Parks Canada and Lutsel K’e.

The vision statement reads as follows:

Thaidene Nene is the heart of the homeland and sacred place of the Lutsel K’e Denesoline. It is where the ancestors of the Lutsel K'e Denesoline laid down the sacred [and] ethical and practical foundations of the Denesoline way of life. Carrying these traditions into the future, the Lutsel K’e Denesoline have the right to promote their culture, practice their relationship with the land and water, and protect the territory upon which [the] culture and relationship depend. Protection of Thaidene Nene means preserving the environmental and cultural integrity of a homeland fundamental to a material well-being and cultural identity. As...keepers of Thaidene Nene, the Lutsel K’e Denesoline have the responsibility to act as stewards of the land and...host to visitors.

The Lutsel K’e Dene are the caretakers of Thaidene Nëné. We have the responsibility to protect this land for the future generations, and to celebrate and share Thaidene Nëné with all Canadians.

Our vision for Thaidene Nëné is informed by our understanding of our peace and friendship relationship with the crown. We approach the protection and management of Thaidene Nëné as an equal partnership between our governments, with Canada and the Northwest Territories, and Lutsel K’e, where we both are bringing to the table respective expertise and responsibilities. We seek to share our world-class culture and landscape, and a heritage that is critical to our way of life as indigenous people, and indeed to all Canadians.

Conservation as reconciliation. An important national precedent will be set if our Thaidene Nëné vision is achieved. While historically, protected areas in Canada have been established only under the auspices of crown legislation and authority, we are well down the road towards a bold and precedent-setting governance partnership between the Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation and the Government of Canada and the Government of Northwest Territories. Our shared objectives, as expressed in the establishment agreement initialled between negotiators for Parks Canada and Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation, is for the two parties to share authority on all aspects of Thaidene Nëné, including management decision-making and operational responsibilities.

We are also working with the Government of Northwest Territories towards this designation for the portions of Thaidene Nëné that will be protected under territorial parks legislation. Both these partnerships are being advanced on a government-to-government basis and in the spirit of reconciliation.

Historically, crown initiatives to establish parks to undertake on-the-land conservation programs have resulted in, at worst, the alienation of indigenous peoples from their traditional territories, and at best, limited opportunities for jobs working for another government.

We think there is a better way. A new model championed by the Lutsel K’e Dene First Nation will promote the responsibility and capacity of indigenous peoples to work as stewards in their traditional territories, using their own ways of knowing and doing. They would be employed by the Lutsel K’e government and work side by side with the Government of Canada to implement our joint vision and management plan for Thaidene Nëné.

We view this as a critical contribution on the path toward reconciliation between indigenous peoples and Canada. We view Thaidene Nëné as a means to maintain and promote our unique indigenous ways of knowing and doing. Initially, protection of the landscape necessary for our indigenous ways to have an opportunity to be expressed is critical. We must include whole watersheds, culturally important lands, and critical wildlife habitats and ecosystems within the protected area.

I should stress that protecting the land does not mean excluding people from it. As Dene people, we have always shared our lands and our way of life with others. We intend for that to continue. We have assurances that our constitutionally protected rights and traditional ways of life will be respected. We also intend that there be provisions for longstanding northerners to carry on subsistence and recreational activities in accordance with conservation and park management plans, as has been done recently in Labrador for the Mealy Mountains Akami-Uapishk National Park Reserve.

It is also in the context of Thaidene Nëné as a conservation landscape that our deep cultural knowledge can be given a contemporary relevance in informing and connecting Canadians to our north. Our community will provide the human connections, local context, and historical depth for visitors' experiences. We are also uniquely placed to integrate our traditional knowledge with science for the purpose of environmental monitoring and management, including providing the deep historical baseline for climate change and adaptation.

Thaidene Nëné is uniquely situated to help demonstrate how we can break the cycle of poverty and dependency that characterizes many indigenous communities in Canada. We view Thaidene Nëné as an opportunity to realize economic reconciliation. Our people love their culture and their land, and seek avenues to demonstrate their value in the contemporary world. Showcasing our stories and our special places will be of interest to visitors from around the world. Thaidene Nëné is not just about conservation. It is about a viable economic future for Lutsel K’e as the gateway to Thaidene Nëné and its operational and service centre.

In order to realize our responsibilities in Thaidene Nëné and to catalyze an associated conservation economy, Lutsel K’e First Nation has established a Thaidene Nëné trust fund. Income generated from the trust fund through interest and investment will be allocated to our management and operational responsibilities, as outlined in the establishing agreement and through related education and training. The trust fund will also support the ongoing promotion of our indigenous culture and will help catalyze the conservation economy. The Thaidene Nëné trust fund is fundamental to the self-determination of the Lutsel K’e Dene First Nations and the responsible governance of Thaidene Nëné. Our initial capitalization objective is $30 million. We have raised $15 million that is dependent on matching funds from the Government of Canada. We invite the Government of Canada to match our commitment of $15 million to the Thaidene Nëné trust fund.

We are nearing the finish line with Thaidene Nëné. While we have a draft Thaidene Nëné establishment agreement, Lutsel K’e and Canada must still finalize boundaries and come to terms with respect to the trust fund. We hope we can together put the finishing touches on this great initiative in the coming year and jointly announce the establishment of Thaidene Nëné for Canada's 150th birthday in 2017.

I thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to present the Thaidene Nëné vision.

Mahsi cho.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We thank you very much for sharing that vision with us.

Next, if we could have Valerie, I believe you're up. Thank you.

[Valerie Courtois]

Thank you, committee, for the opportunity to speak with you today.

Before I begin, I just want to acknowledge the unceded Algonquin territory that we're located on and thank them for the care that they've shown in caring for this land and allowing us to be here.

I am Valerie and I come from Mashteuiatsh in Quebec and I live in Labrador currently. I am the director of the indigenous leadership initiative, which is a partner in the international boreal conservation campaign. What we do is we help indigenous nations strengthen their nationhood in order to have results of good management systems on the land. Strong nations make strong decisions on lands, and that's what we're about. As an international boreal conservation campaign, we seek to have the boreal forest be not only the best conserved but the best managed terrestrial ecosystem in the world, and Canada has a great heritage in its boreal forest.

We're here to talk to you today about a national initiative called the indigenous guardians network. What we're proposing and the idea that we're proposing is to create a national network of moccasins on the ground who are responsible for not only monitoring and watching out for their own lands, but feeding that back into our decision-making and our own management system related to those lands. We have clear visions and aspirations for the future of these lands, and the guardians program represents a way of expressing that vision and those aspirations.

What are guardians? They're essentially the eyes and ears of communities on the lands. I directed a program for almost a decade with the Innu nation in Labrador and our favourite saying was, “Today's guardians are tomorrow's ministers.” It's really about finding a way of expressing your own governance and your own systems of management in a modern context of a shared future with governments and other Canadians.

This idea is not new in Canada. In fact, there are 30 such programs that exist across the country. They include the Innu nation program that I'm involved with, but also the Ni Hat'ni Dene program that is associated with the Thaidene Nëné proposal, the Gwaii Haanas watchmen—I have a colleague here, Miles Richardson, who is very familiar with that program—and the coastal guardian watchmen network in British Columbia, which is a well-established network. These programs have shown and proven that when there are guardians in place, the conversation around not only resource development but also conservation is a much richer and deeper one.

We have a vision that all indigenous peoples across this nation should have the ability and the opportunity to avail themselves of such programs. We think that this would create a real context for a deep conversation on what nation-to-nation management of lands and our shared future looks like with respect to lands.

We've also been inspired by a program in Australia. This is called the working on country program. It's been running for just over eight years now. The Australian government has invested over half a billion dollars in these positions, and the results have been quite remarkable. They now employ nearly 800 full-time rangers who actively manage lands across Australia. The results of the programs, to their credit, have been quite remarkable.

They include a marked reduction of rates of incarceration of indigenous peoples, a reduction of rates of violence against women, a reduction of rates of obesity and diabetes, all these amazing social indicators, in addition to the obvious land management results that come from programs like this that include programs around the management of feral animals, very interesting fire-management regimes in Australia, species at risk, parks, indigenous-protected areas, and other such services. I could go on.

We are here this week meeting with various representatives from Parliament, ministers, and other government officials to discuss not only our vision but also to work with government in forming this idea. We really think that this could be a path to reconciliation and, as we look at the various mandate letters and recommendations under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, we see that a program like this could really help government achieve some of its objectives with respect to reconciliation with indigenous peoples.

Finally, I'd like to thank you all for your time and to acknowledge my ancestors in the Innu culture who have helped guide me with respect to how we do right by our lands and our own cultural responsibilities to them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

I want to thank you very much as well for taking the time to present to us. This is a very important aspect of our discussions around the table and we're grateful that you're here.

Is there anyone else from your organization who wants to speak?