Evidence of meeting #152 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plan.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Nadler  Acting Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Everyone is here, so let's get started.

We're now on session number four of our main estimates review today. I'll go through a bit of the formality for today's proceedings.

To begin with, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4) and the order of reference of Thursday, April 11, 2019, the committee will now consider the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2020.

We will consider votes 1 and 5 under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, and with that, I'd like to welcome Mr. Hallman, who is here for CEAA.

We will consider votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 under the Department of the Environment, and we have Mr. Lucas here for the department.

We will consider votes 1 and 5 under the Parks Canada Agency, and Mr. Nadler is here.

I'd also like to welcome our minister, Minister McKenna, and parliamentary secretary Sean Fraser.

I will now call vote 1 under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, which will permit general discussion of the estimates and questioning of witnesses. We'll go into the opening statement by the minister, and then we'll go right into our round of questions. It's like a regular session where each party will have six minutes at a time, we rotate, and we'll get as far as we can in our discussion by five o'clock.

I would also like to welcome Ms. Stubbs for the Conservatives, who's here today as our special guest; Ms. Mathyssen for the NDP and Mr. McKinnon on the Liberal side.

Minister, you have 10 minutes for an opening statement.

3:35 p.m.

Ottawa Centre Ontario

Liberal

Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee. It's great being back; I appreciate the work the committee does. It's really important that action to protect the environment and tackle climate change is not a partisan issue.

I want to acknowledge the hard work of the colleagues who have joined me today: Sean Fraser, parliamentary secretary for this portfolio; Dr. Stephen Lucas, deputy minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada; Michael Nadler, acting chief executive officer of the Parks Canada Agency; and Ron Hallman, president of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

Gentlemen, thank you for your work.

I want to start by recognizing that we're on the traditional territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe peoples.

I also want to recognize all the people who are suffering with the flooding that's going on. That's people in New Brunswick, in Quebec, in Ontario and in the national capital region. I know our members of Parliament are working very hard; thank you for that.

On behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, my department is taking strong action to protect our environment, fight climate change, conserve nature and grow our economy.

On April 11, the main estimates were tabled. For Environment and Climate Change Canada, the main estimates for 2019-20 are $1.8 billion. This represents an increase in planned spending of $312.2 million.

The increase is mainly due to new funding for two priorities. The first is to re-profile funds for the low carbon economy fund to support our work on climate change and clean growth. The second is to better protect Canada's nature, parks and wild spaces.

These main estimates also include four new votes that total $26.3 million. This includes Canada's marine safety response and funding for strong Arctic and northern communities.

In addition, we will be implementing a federal carbon offset system to develop the information technology infrastructure and tracking systems required for a national carbon offset credit system.

It also includes ensuring better disaster management, preparation and response. Unfortunately, the annual economic costs of disasters around the world have increased fivefold since the 1980s, as events related to climate change have occurred with more frequency and severity. Canada has not been immune to this trend.

Our planet is in crisis. Canadians are deeply anxious about climate change. Under the previous Conservative government, these concerns were ignored. Our country is warming at twice the global rate, according to expert Government of Canada scientists, and our north at three times the rate. Canadians voted for leadership that would confront this crisis with action: it is a moral imperative.

We're working hard to make sure all Canadians are part of our cleaner future, from resource workers and their communities to the school strikers and other young people calling for bold climate action.

Climate change is creating real and present dangers. Here in Ottawa and Gatineau, our riverbanks have been breached by floods once again. What we called the flood of a century now happens every few years.

Across our country, you will hear more and more stories related to the environment. These extreme weather events are happening more and more often because of a situation our species, humankind, has created.

The simple fact is that in 2019, if you don't have a plan for the environment, you don't have a plan for the economy. Our made in Canada climate plan, made with all Canadians, includes phasing out coal-fired electricity and regulating greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles, methane emissions from oil and gas, and HFCs, which on their own could account for half a degree of global warming. We're also investing in energy efficiency across the country.

An important part of any serious climate plan ensures it's no longer free to pollute. Climate change is already costing us a fortune. Last year, extreme weather caused $1.9 billion in property damage. That number is estimated to go as high as $43 billion by 2050.

Putting a price on carbon is a practical and proven solution to reduce emissions. Let me also unequivocally remind you that all direct proceeds from federal carbon pricing will be returned to the jurisdiction in which they were collected. In Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and New Brunswick, taxpayers get the money back through the climate action incentive when they file their 2018 taxes.

Let me be clear that all money collected under the price on pollution is going back into the province, with 90% of the money going directly to families. Eighty per cent of families will be better off, so go file your taxes if you are in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan or New Brunswick.

Last week, the parliamentary budget office's independent analysis found that under the federal system, all but the wealthiest 20% of Canadians will get more back through the climate action incentive rebate than they pay. A price on pollution encourages Canadians to make cleaner choices, reduces pollution and helps Canada meet its Paris Agreement requirements. It is a practical and affordable way to fight climate change.

Leading economists from all over the world agree that putting a price on pollution and returning the money, as this system does, is one of the most effective ways to encourage people and businesses to reduce their pollution.

While we are standing on the precipice of a climate catastrophe, members of the opposition want to make climate action a partisan issue. We've been waiting a year—yes, today marks 365 days—to see the Conservatives' climate plan. They keep stalling, but time is running out. Worse, they're misleading Canadians about how the federal price on pollution works.

A number of our Conservative colleagues recently sent out taxpayer-funded householders— newsletters—that deliberately withheld details about how their constituents can claim their climate action incentive. That's hundreds of dollars that rightly belong to their constituents, to Canadians.

Conservatives are more focused on scoring partisan points than looking out for the people they're elected to represent and ensuring they are better off.

That's just one of the ways I have seen the members of the opposition use to mislead their constituents and to spread information that is partially, or even totally, false. Climate change is a serious and urgent issue that should not be used as a political forum by the opposition.

The children who are marching the streets may not be able to vote yet, but they know that we need to do more, not less. They do not inherit the earth from us when we are done polluting it. We are borrowing the earth from them.

Mr. Chair, protecting the environment and supporting a sustainable economy also means keeping our waters clean and our oceans healthy. That's why our departmental plan outlines strategies to protect Canada's freshwater resources and reduce marine litter and plastic waste.

We are continuing to work with international partners, all levels of government, indigenous communities, industry and the public to reduce plastic waste and its pollution.

We launched the ocean plastics charter during Canada's G7 presidency, to beat plastic pollution and keep it out of our oceans, lakes and rivers. Membership has expanded to 18 governments and over 50 organizations. We're working with the provinces and territories on a Canada-wide strategy to keep plastics in the economy and out of landfills.

Work also continues on implementing the recommendations of the committee's report on the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. Many of the actions require using new science, and actions are being taken to strengthen the use of new science in decision-making.

Our departmental plan also highlights major investments in conservation. The world is home to 60% less wildlife than it was in 1970 and wilderness is disappearing rapidly. Canada is one of five countries that holds the world's significant remaining wilderness. We are in a unique position to lead. That's why our government launched the nature legacy fund; the single-largest investment to protect nature in Canada's history. We've also protected 11.8% of our land and fresh water and 8% of our oceans and coastal areas. We're well on our way to doubling the amount of nature being protected across Canada.

On that note, I'd like to speak now about the main estimates for the Parks Canada Agency.

Protected areas play a critical role in restoring the health of ecosystems and protect biodiversity. Intact wilderness absorbs twice as much carbon as other landscapes, helping to mitigate the impact of climate change.

The main estimates propose about $1.65 billion in total funding for the Parks Canada Agency. This represents an increase of $178 million. In addition, budget 2019 proposes $368 million for capital projects to protect natural treasures in our national parks, historic sites and marine conservation areas.

To quickly highlight a few of Parks Canada's recent accomplishments, in October, Canada reached an agreement in principle with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association for the proposed Tallurutiup Imanga/Lancaster Sound national marine conservation area in Nunavut. It will become the largest protected area in Canada, covering 2% of our oceans.

In early 2019, the first-ever management plan for Rouge National Urban Park was tabled in Parliament. Meanwhile, budget 2019 proposed to take steps to legally establish Thaidene Nëné National Park Reserve in the Northwest Territories.

I'd like to speak about the vital work of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency. The government tabled Bill C-69, which proposes to put in place better rules to protect our environment and rebuild public trust in decisions about major projects. It also aims to restore investor confidence and ensure that good projects can move forward in a timely way. The agency plays a key leadership role in the development and implementation of this legislation and associated regulations, and can be very proud of the many contributions it makes on behalf of Canadians. The Senate is diligently considering this bill, as I speak.

The agency's total 2019-20 main estimates is $74.2 million. The requested funding supports continued delivery of environmental assessments under the current act. It also anticipates new and expanded activities under the proposed impact assessment act. These activities would touch on impact assessment, partnering with indigenous peoples. They would work on cumulative effects and collaborating with other jurisdictions to make assessments more efficient, supporting the objective of one project, one review.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my formal remarks to the committee.

I thank you again for the invitation. I look forward to your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Excellent. Thank you for your opening statement. I'm sure that will give us lots to discuss. I also recognize a number of departmental officials in the audience, so welcome to many of the familiar faces who are also here to support the team.

First up, I have Mr. Bossio and Mr. Amos, who will take the first six minutes of questioning.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you so much, Minister, for being here once again for the main estimates. Your presence is greatly appreciated.

I'll get right into it. The parliamentary budget office report has confirmed that low- and middle-income Ontarians get more money back in the climate rebate than they pay into the price on pollution, yet Doug Ford is continuing to waste taxpayers' money in court trying to make pollution free. It's astounding to me that Doug Ford and the Conservatives think we can fight climate change without having a plan. As you mentioned, we're a year into the promise for a plan and yet today we still don't have a plan.

Can you tell us how our government is ensuring that we're protecting future generations by fighting climate change?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank the Parliamentary Budget Officer for his ongoing work on behalf of Canadians and parliamentarians. His work confirms everything that our government has been saying about a price on pollution. Everyone but the wealthiest 20% of Canadians will get back more money through the climate action incentive rebate than they pay, but that is just a part of our plan.

We are also making historic investments in public transportation and renewable energy, phasing out coal, investing in clean technology solutions, supporting our inventors and entrepreneurs, and there are many other measures as part of our 50-measure plan that was developed with Canadians.

Unfortunately, you have Premier Ford and Andrew Scheer who are intentionally misleading Canadians. They are spending taxpayer money to fight putting a price on pollution in court—$30 million. Also, there's a taxpayer-funded campaign in Ontario where, if you're an independent, small business owner, you face a fine of $10,000 a day if you don't do the bidding of the Ford government, misleading Ontarians about the costs of climate change and about the climate action incentive rebate.

Unfortunately, Conservatives in Parliament are sending out taxpayer-funded householders that intentionally do not show to their constituents that among the tax measures, the newest one, the one that they can probably benefit the most from is the climate action incentive rebate.

We need to take action on climate change. I don't need to tell Canadians that because they are feeling the impacts right now. We look at the floods. One-in-a-hundred year floods are happening every few years.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Doug Ford is also cutting funding for flood prevention to our local conservation authorities in half. Organizations in Quinte, Lower Trent, Crowe Valley and Cataraqui play a pivotal role in protecting our regions from flooding, right in my riding and for Ontarians.

He is cutting funding to forests for tree planting that prevents soil erosion. He is cutting over $280 million from OMAFRA—cuts, cuts, cuts. Can you tell us what kind of negative impacts this is going to have on the health and safety of Ontarians, in particular in rural Ontario where we are seeing so much of this flooding happening today?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you for your question. It's really important, and it's really timely because, as we all know, we are seeing flooding across the country. While we are seeing flooding, however, you have the Ford government that is cutting funding to support flood management by amazing conservation organizations with whom we work every single day.

We need to be doing more, not less, to protect our citizens, but the Ford government also made cuts to forest fire prevention and action. We know, as we saw last summer, the impacts of the fires across the country. This is about keeping people safe.

What are they spending money on? Stickers and $30 million fighting climate action in court. We need to be serious about climate action. We need to make decisions based on the science, the science to both tackle climate change and also to adapt to the impacts of climate change. Nature-based solutions are critically important.

We also need to use evidence and use measures that we know work, which include putting a price on pollution. Unfortunately, Andrew Scheer and Doug Ford don't seem to understand the science behind climate change or the evidence of what policies, like putting a price on pollution, work.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC

Minister McKenna, our homes in Pontiac are flooded, our roads are crumbling and our communities are suffering from so many repeated disasters: two floods and a tornado in three years. This is our reality and it is not only in the Pontiac, but also in New Brunswick, elsewhere in Quebec and Ontario. You are fully aware of that. We are already seeing the impact of climate change and we continue to pay the price.

The Conservatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and ignore the reality of the impact of climate change on the lives of Canadians. Unlike the Conservatives, we have a plan. In the Pontiac, we do not have the luxury of claiming that climate change does not exist. Canadians know full well that there is a price to pay, now or in the future. The longer we fail to take action on climate change, the higher the price our children and grandchildren will have to pay. What the Conservatives are doing is unacceptable.

Minister, can you explain to my Pontiac constituents, but also to Canadians, how our climate change plan will improve the situation and how a price on pollution will prevent our children from paying tomorrow for the damage caused today?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you for your question, Mr. Amos, and thank you very much for the work that you are doing.

I know how much the people in the Pontiac are suffering, as are the people in Quebec, Gatineau, Ottawa—I was in Constance Bay, where I filled sandbags with the people—and in New Brunswick. When we went through the 2017 flooding, we thought it was the flood of the century. However, this phenomenon is now happening every two years. These floods are extremely costly, not only in terms of rebuilding the houses. They are also very costly in people's lives. I see how much these people are suffering.

Doug Ford went to Constance Bay and said that something must be happening. Yes, something is happening and that is climate change. We must take action and tackle it. We must protect people. That is why we are investing in adaptation. We have a $2-billion fund to help people adapt to climate change. We also have the new Canadian Climate Services Centre to help people and we have a plan to address climate change. We are working with the people in the Pontiac region. We stand by them, as we stand by all Canadians.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Now we're going to move to Mr. Fast for six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by noting the absence of our colleague Mark Warawa at this table. As you know, he is undergoing some very serious health challenges, and he would certainly covet your thoughts and prayers as we consider him a very valued colleague of some 15 years here in the House of Commons.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Yes. Thanks for sharing that update with us. I reset your clock to six minutes, so you can start now.

April 29th, 2019 / 3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you.

However, I did want to call you out, Minister, on the hypocrisy of your remarks.

You began by sanctimoniously suggesting that climate change is a non-partisan issue, and then you embarked upon a bit of a tirade against Conservatives and Andrew Scheer, as did your two colleagues here, Mr. Amos and Mr. Bossio. How is climate change a non-partisan issue when you immediately spend the next 15 minutes attacking your opponents, those who disagree with you on the merits of a carbon tax? We happen to believe that a carbon tax will not get us to where we need to go. We don't believe that you can tax your way to a clean environment; however, you're entitled to disagree. If you consider us to be partisan, but not you, that's a bit of a joke.

So I wanted to call you out on that: if you really believe that climate change is a non-partisan issue, then you should act that way.

Now let me get straight into the question on the carbon tax.

Your government signed on to the Paris Agreement and promised to meet Canada's agreed-upon targets. Are you on track to meet Canada's 2030 emissions targets?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

I want to also share my thoughts about Mark. What's happening is very sad, and we all stand together.

It pains me greatly. The Conservatives nowadays think that we can do more, not less, on climate change. They don't seem to understand the science on climate change and don't seem to understand the facts about what works. I'm going to stand up for—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, my question was on the targets.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

—climate action. I'm going to fight climate inaction and fight for good policies. I'm not going to apologize for that.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, mine was a yes-or-no question. Is Canada on track now to meet its 2030 emissions targets under the Paris Agreement, yes or no?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Canada is on track to meet our Paris Agreement targets. We have committed to that. We are three-quarters of the way there. We are implementing measures right now that have not been modelled yet. Those are investments in public transportation, clean innovation, doubling our nature, which we know is a carbon sink. But the question really would be: is Andrew Scheer going to show us a plan that meets the Paris Agreement target? He committed to that. You all voted for that.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

You know what, Minister, I want to remind you Andrew Scheer is not the Prime Minister of this country. You are the Minister of the Environment. The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, leads the government. We, as the opposition, are here to hold you to account. That's why we're asking you the questions. It's not for you to ask us the questions right now.

I'm asking you again, can you provide us with any supporting evidence that you're on track to meet the targets as you've just suggested?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I'm happy to table the “Clean Canada: Protecting the Environment and Growing our Economy” document. We have also our “Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change”.

Andrew Scheer seems to think we don't have a plan. In fact, we have a plan that was negotiated with provinces and territories, with indigenous leaders, with input from cities, towns, businesses and all Canadians. We have a made in Canada plan—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

With respect, Minister—

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

—for Canadians. If I could direct you to page 13—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

—of the clean Canada plan, it has how we plan to meet our target.

Do you know what? We need to do more. We all believe we need to do more.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, I'm familiar with that pie chart that you've got there. Much of that is unmodelled proposals going forward.

I would also suggest to you that the climate change plan that you have brought forward is not a climate change plan at all. It is a tax plan. It includes a carbon tax. It includes GST on our carbon tax. Imagine that, a Liberal government charging tax on a tax. On top of that, there's a clean fuel standard coming down the pike that is expected to add hundreds of dollars more to the effective price of carbon in Canada.

I want to remind you of something, Minister. The Auditor General, the commissioner of the environment, the United Nations and even your own departmental documents say that you're not going to meet your Paris targets. Even Saint David Suzuki says you won't meet your targets. How can you bald-faced sit here today, in the face of all the contrary evidence, and suggest that you're on track to meet Canada's emissions targets under the Paris Agreement? I'm gobsmacked.