Environment Committee on May 13th, 2019

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The will may be there, but do you have the means to achieve your ambitions? Within the department, have you prioritized the staff needed to achieve this objective? My goal isn't to catch you out. I'll give you a very simplistic example. You spoke earlier about the EcoAction community funding program. Is there any money left in that program?

You don't know? The answer isn't important.

I read on the Environment Canada site that the deadline to submit an application to the EcoAction community funding program had been extended to January 16, 2019. It's now May 13, 2019. So it's been three months. I'm wondering how the average person or organizations perceive this. I have a lot of respect for the people who work in the departments. However, it seems to me that you're overwhelmed.

I know my example is simplistic, but have I interpreted the situation correctly? Do you have the means for your ambitions?

[Helen Ryan]

You mentioned several things. As for the EcoAction community funding program, it takes place every year. We issue calls for proposals. Bids received are evaluated, and funds are allocated. With respect to bids for plastic waste, several grants and contributions were offered. The proposals have been evaluated.

As I mentioned, the problems related to plastic are a priority for our department and our minister. The strategy was designed in less than a year. Consultations were held with every—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have to interrupt you because my time is limited, Ms. Ryan. I see the little yellow card.

You will understand that, from an external point of view, my reading is that something doesn't follow at the department. Why set a deadline?

When there's no more money, there will be no more money. At that point, the organization will be able to submit a new application next year. That's an example. I don't want to criticize the EcoAction program, but the perception is that there is a lot of goodwill, but do we have the means to achieve our ambitions? I ask the question with a big question mark.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

If anybody wants to respond, we're out of time, but I'll take a response.

[Helen Ryan]

EcoAction is actually an envelope and people submit proposals, which are then evaluated and the funds are awarded. That's why there are deadlines for the submissions of proposals, and there's an annual call-out for action.

I would reiterate that from a departmental perspective, putting forward actions and putting in place a strategy and an action plan is departmental, and is our minister's priority. Moreover, the work with respect to the Government of Canada as a whole is continuing. For instance, with the directives for federal procurement and putting in place initiatives of that nature, those things are moving forward. As I mentioned, a number of the other initiatives in support of our international commitments have also moved forward. The announcements will be made shortly of the winners of the innovation challenges, for instance. That work is ongoing and is actively occurring.

[Nancy Hamzawi]

Can I just add a few sentences?

You don't see this on the website, but there is a dedicated plastics team that didn't exist a year ago. Within Helen's group, there is now a complete task force focused on plastics. Within my own organization of the science and technology branch, I now have two dedicated focal points in two different directorates alongside all of the science that we're undertaking. The department is realigning and focusing its efforts on where the key priorities are.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Perfect. Thank you.

Mr. Fisher, you have six minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thanks, folks, for being here. It's nice to see you.

We talked about the plastics charter, which is non-binding, but everyone who signs on would have the best of intentions. We also talked about CEPA. What I'm curious about is the action in regard to single-use plastic and general plastics action overall. Who does it best? Maybe you can describe to me what they're doing and what they've committed to. Are they taking an approach of a CEPA or are they taking an approach of a plastics charter?

[Helen Ryan]

Your question is, who does it best? I would say there are a variety of actions that get taken, and they get taken in the context of the issues that are important to either the municipality, the province, the country, the industry and others. So there's are a variety of actions occurring with respect to single-use plastic, including initiatives that are happening from companies' perspectives where they're showing their own leadership and action with respect to that. I wouldn't say there's one silver bullet solution to how to do this. I think it really is a function of—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

But you must be able to suggest that there's a world leader as a country that's really taking serious action on plastics—not a silver bullet per se.

[Helen Ryan]

With respect to plastics, a variety of actions are occurring. Depending on the jurisdiction, there may be someone who's very far out in what they're doing, for instance, on single-use plastic. There may be somebody else who's much more progressive in what they're doing with fiscal measures to influence behaviours or with extended producer responsibility. I think there are a variety of areas where we see leadership, and it's not framed necessarily by one individual country.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We talked earlier about the science of other countries and taking that into account. Are there other countries that we're going to school on or watching their science? Are they taking a CEPA-style approach or a charter approach?

[Helen Ryan]

Countries are taking a variety of actions via a variety of bodies. When Environment and Climate Change Canada takes action, for instance, we take action under the authorities that we have. Each country has a variety of authorities, so I can't actually give you a like-by-like answer because we don't have a like-by-like analogy. I'm not trying to be difficult; it's just that we approach these things from different perspectives. That is why you will see a variety of approaches.

For instance, in the EU where it's in a directive, the directive is then to the member states. The member states would then move to take their own specific action, and then they would use some of their own targeted authorities. The EU has broader authorities as the EU proper, so then they will use those for the kinds of measures they're going to put out. That's just meant to be illustrative.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Can you tell us a little bit about the science assessment process and how it works? Canadians are seeing whales with bellies full of plastic, and are seeing that as the evidence needed to take action. Maybe you could touch base on this and help us understand exactly how that process works.

[Nancy Hamzawi]

Yes, part of the challenge is that public perception is, in many cases, ahead of where the science is. In many cases we don't have a crystal clear answer from a scientific perspective.

With regard to science assessment, in the case of microbeads, for example, where there is some pre-existing information we can do a review of pre-existing information and pull that together. It then is subject to a peer review, to make sure it withstands full scientific scrutiny and holds scientific integrity, and then to public comment. Those would be the key steps in a science assessment process.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

One minute.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Recognizing that we have limited time left, I'll go back to my question about who does it best. Only one person spoke to that. As a department, do you have something you could submit to us on specific things that different countries or jurisdictions, do? We talked about P.E.I. We talked about Victoria. These would be things that you might want to get on the record. We don't have time today to get into all of it, but if you have something you'd like to submit in a written way, that would be beneficial to this study. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Stetski will get the floor, but before I go to him, I just want to welcome Mr. Shipley to our committee today.

Welcome.

Wayne.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I have a couple of questions.

First, you said that “In support of the charter, Canada committed $100 million to support the development of plastic waste solutions in developing countries.” I think that is quite admirable.

Are you able to give Canadians a figure, or some kind of number, on what is being put forward for the development of plastic waste solutions in Canada? If not, that might be something you might want to work towards. We all love seeing focus, and focus means dollars in the end.

[Helen Ryan]

What I can say is that there have been some targeted investments made domestically as well. When I talked about the innovation challenges, the domestic challenges, the ones that were put forward domestically represent $12 million in domestic investment. We'll look to providing further information to you on the financial contributions.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Please do if you could, because in the end, money tells Canadians a lot about how focused we are or aren't on a particular problem. That would be great.

With your being a long-time public servant, I would like to think that the committee is in partnership with you to realize a better future for plastic pollution in Canada, as Canadians want to see it. I just want give you an opportunity, from what you've seen so far, to say if there any other ways we can help you do your job in dealing with plastics, or anything that we've missed along the way. I want to give you the last word.

If I have time, though, the last question will be, what will we do with three billion cigarette filters? Let's deal with this one first.

[Helen Ryan]

Thank you for that question.

I think the fact that you're bringing stakeholders together to talk to the issue from a variety of perspectives, and then to reflect on what you're hearing, is very helpful and valuable. As we've heard, this issue requires everyone to come together to work to deal with it in an effective way. Your ability to sit back and think of it from that perspective and then provide some thoughtful insight from where you sit is very helpful and will be very insightful in ensuring that we're putting in place a comprehensive approach for Canada.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Does anybody want to deal with the three billion cigarette butts? Did I get that number right? It was an early—

[Jacinthe Seguin]

I just know it's number one on the list.