Evidence of meeting #21 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cepa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
One of the reasons I asked about balance between the two is that Sherry made a comment about modernizing CEPA. I think she said “improvements”. If I have a couple of minutes left, I will go to Sherry now, if I could.
Can you give me an idea of what you mean by modernizing CEPA? In improving CEPA, an improvement to one group might be degradation to another. I would be interested in what you think would be possible in modernizing CEPA.
12:15 p.m.
Manager, Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Part of our interest in looking at the data component in particular is in achieving a common understanding of status and trends in the environment. I think it allows for a richer dialogue, a multi-stakeholder dialogue—which is what you were referring to earlier—about what the possible solutions and remedies could look like and how to roll out work plans for improving the management of substances. That is what we were thinking.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Just a quick clarification, industry is not looking to redefine “toxic”. It is not necessarily happy with the definition, but it is not really looking to redefine “toxic”.
12:15 p.m.
Manager, Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
I am concerned that I may have misstated earlier. I think the issue, as Justyna said, is more about what the response mechanism looks like. The issue is that if you have a substance that is a lower hazard but more diffuse, the way you would approach it from a management perspective is quite different from something that is a more acute hazard.
It really is about that. What does a decision tree look like that focuses your action very quickly on a remedy?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Madam Chair, if I have an extra minute, can I give it to Mr. Bossio?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Excellent. I am not looking for a response, because I know that you won't be able to answer in this time, but I would like a written response to what I am about to ask.
Given what Mr. Amos was discussing earlier about this new report that has come out from the CBC on the SOAs in Alberta, the secondary organic aerosols, and given the bad rap that the tar ponds have had in Alberta and the level of toxicity going into local rivers, waterways, and indigenous communities, it is great to hear about this petroleum innovation alliance and all the studies and data collection that are being done, but at the end of the day, what are we doing about it?
The SOA emissions are either the highest or second-highest in Canada. They are in the top 10 in North America. We need to start doing something about these things.
I would also throw out.... Earlier, Ed was talking about the difference between risk and threat. This is the whole reason that threat analysis can be a so much stronger assessment tool, because you are now looking up front at the threats that these ponds or emissions will cause, rather than waiting until after the fact to find out and then trying to play catch-up to do something about it. By then the environmental damage is done. We need to try to do something to preclude that damage beforehand and do something about it before it happens.
If you could provide what the petroleum industry is now planning to do about about the tailings ponds or the tar ponds or whatever the term is. I apologize; the term escapes me.
I would also throw that over to the mining industry to respond as well on the tailings ponds side. How can we mitigate? I know the mining industry has done a much better job in this area now that they are creating solids—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Sorry, but I have to wrap it up because we're a minute over. Thank you.
Mr. Cullen, you have three minutes.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I have several questions.
Sherry, I think you were saying that better regulations would enable cleaner tech. Do you have any specific suggestions for a CEPA review?
It was one of three or four listings. You said that it would be more innovative, it would be streamlined, and it would enable cleaner technologies to be brought on line. Did you have anything specific for us?
You're looking confused.
12:20 p.m.
Manager, Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
I'm sorry. The sound cut out partway through. Could you repeat your question? I apologize.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Just in passing, you said that some of the changes that you would recommend to CEPA would allow for more streamlining of assessments and would also enable cleaner technologies to be brought online.
Do you have any specific recommendations for the committee that would enable that second piece?
12:20 p.m.
Manager, Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
In terms of how it would flow through CEPA, I'm not as clear. I do know how we would do it in terms of industry-led initiatives taking that information and using it as a basis for informing prioritization through various research and innovation bodies that we're affiliated with.
We could certainly look at an option and respond to that.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sure. Thank you.
Andrea, I'll come back to you on asbestos and that whole thing. Do we know where asbestos is right now? When someone goes in to do a renovation on a government building, on a private home, do we have any kind of sense of where asbestos is?
12:20 p.m.
National Representative, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Labour Congress
No.
12:20 p.m.
National Representative, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Labour Congress
Yes.
I think there should be a registry of public buildings, and not just buildings like this one, but hockey rinks, schools—
12:20 p.m.
National Representative, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Labour Congress
Even for public buildings.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
If someone picks up a contract in Kamloops to fix the arena, it's only when they knock down that first wall that they find out whether there is asbestos present.
12:20 p.m.
National Representative, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Labour Congress
Well, they might not find that out anyway. They might open it, be exposed, and still not know.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Right, okay.
There has been much talk about some sort of public registry for years. What stands in the way? Is it an NPRI thing? Is it funding? What's the problem?
12:20 p.m.
National Representative, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Labour Congress
It's very difficult for me to answer that question, because I've been working for a ban on asbestos for 20 years.
When 2,099 Canadians died just last year from asbestos exposure and the Prime Minister doesn't live in his house right now, it's hard for me to say what the obstacle is. I feel that Canadians know that asbestos is harmful. I feel that Canadians know it's a problem. I think the fatalities are rising. I think that the age of onset is dropping. I think we have a horrible problem.
It's hard to identify what the obstacle would be, other than political will.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'm sorry, but I didn't understand your comment about the Prime Minister not living in his residence right now.
Is it in 24 Sussex?