Environment Committee on May 1st, 2017

[The Chair (Mrs. Deborah Schulte (King—Vaughan, Lib.)), Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We're going to bring the meeting to order. Welcome back, everyone, from constituency weeks. Welcome to the minister and staff.

Jonathan Wilkinson, it's really great to have you with us.

We're looking forward to having good dialogue, good questions and answers. I don't know if I need to say anything else other than, I will turn the floor over to the minister.

Thank you so much for being here today.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Great, and thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon everyone. I am delighted to be here.

I'm going to start by recognizing we're on the traditional territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe peoples. That's something I take extraordinarily seriously in my job. Indigenous peoples—first nations, Inuit, and Métis peoples—were the first stewards of our land, our water, our air, and protectors of our animals.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, dear colleagues, I'm delighted to be here with you today to discuss the 2017-18 main estimates for Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Parks Canada Agency, and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency. I'm pleased to be joined today by Jonathan Wilkinson, my awesome parliamentary secretary, whom you know well; Dr. Stephen Lucas, deputy minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada; Daniel Watson, CEO of the Parks Canada Agency; and Ron Hallman, president of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

I would like to use this opportunity today to look back at some of our achievements this past year in protecting our environment and strengthening our economy. I would also like to look forward at some of our plans to build on these successes.

My key priority continues to be ensuring our government provides national leadership to reduce emissions, fight climate change, and make Canada competitive in the emerging low-carbon global economy. As I always say, the environment and the economy go together. We know that the world is moving, markets are moving, and that we need to support innovation, good jobs, and clean growth for all Canadians.

Planning for a low-carbon economy today is the smart strategic decision for Canada's present and future economic prosperity.

Canadians understand this. They know that reducing our greenhouse gas emissions will make our economy more competitive and allow it to grow in a sustainable way.

The transition is already under way. On December 9, 2016, Canada's first ministers and indigenous leaders finalized the pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change. This plan will allow Canada to meet its emissions reduction target of 30% below 2005 levels by 2030.

The approach will be to give Canada an edge in building a clean-growth economy. It will make Canadian businesses more innovative and competitive. It will bring new and exciting job prospects for middle-class Canadians. As well, as a co-benefit, it will also reduce the pollution that threatens our clean air and oceans, as well as the health of Canadians.

We're supporting the framework with a series of regulations that will play a key role in meeting our Paris target. These include methane, hydrofluorocarbons, heavy-duty vehicles, the phase-out of traditional coal-fired electricity by 2030, and performance standards for natural gas-fired electricity. We're also working to develop a federal clean fuel standard.

We're helping Canadian companies adopt low-carbon, energy-efficient equipment and processes. We're promoting Canadian innovation and supporting clean technology companies as they scale up to compete in the global market.

Budget 2017 includes major investments in clean innovation that will ultimately create good middle-class jobs and reduce Canada's greenhouse gas emissions. As well as funding for green infrastructure and renewable energy, budget 2017 provides more than $2.2 billion to support clean technology.

I would like to turn now to the 2017 main estimates.

But before I begin, I want to emphasize that the main estimates we are discussing today do not include new funding announced in Budget 2017. The amounts are a portion of the funding that the department and the agencies in my portfolio will request over the course of the fiscal year.

In terms of the 2017-18 main estimates for Environment and Climate Change Canada, planned spending is $987.3 million. This is an increase of $85.2 million over the 2016-17 main estimates.

Since tabling these main estimates, budget 2017 provides for action on short-lived climate pollutants, our transportation system, accelerating the phase-out of coal-fired electricity generation, performance standards for natural gas electric generation, developing a framework for offshore renewable energy projects, and establishing a new Canadian centre for climate services.

Budget 2017 also provides funding to better protect Canada's freshwater resources, including in the Great Lakes and Lake Winnipeg basins. As well, it allocates funds to support strong action on air pollution.

Madam Chair, I would like to now bring to your attention the important work that is being done by Parks Canada to preserve our national parks, expand the system of protected places, and contribute to the recovery of species at risk.

National parks, national historic sites and national marine conservation areas represent the very best that Canada has to offer and tell stories of who we are, including the history, cultures and contributions of indigenous peoples.

The year 2017 marks the 150th anniversary of Confederation, and it's a chance for all Canadian families to get out and explore the rich, natural heritage that Canada has to offer. As you all know, admission to all national parks, national historic sites, and national marine conservation areas operated by Parks Canada is free this year. I'm delighted to let you know that we've already received over 5.5 million orders for the free 2017 discovery pass.

We tabled amendments to the Rouge National Urban Park Act, which will protect the Rouge's important ecosystems and ensure that ecological integrity is the first priority when managing the park.

We are continuing to invest in infrastructure work to heritage, visitor, waterway and highway assets, including highway and trail projects. These investments will ensure the quality and reliability of visitor facilities, continue to allow Canadians to connect with nature, and create jobs and economic growth through tourism.

Budget 2017 provides up to $364 million over two years starting in 2018-19 to continue the management of national parks, national marine conservation areas, and national historic sites across the country. Investments in infrastructure ensure visitor safety and preserve our cultural heritage while supporting local communities.

In terms of the 2017-18 main estimates for the Parks Canada Agency, the planned spending for this fiscal year is approximately $1.4 billion. This is an increase of $215 million when compared with last year's main estimates. Budget 2017 also commits to expanding Canada's system of protected places.

In support of Canada's biodiversity targets to protect 17% of our land and 10% of coastal waters, we're advancing work to create new national parks and marine conservation areas, including the Thaidene Nene area in the Northwest Territories and marine areas in the Îles de la Madeleine, Lancaster Sound, and the southern Strait of Georgia.

We will also work with relevant provincial governments and indigenous organizations on potential new protected areas, including a proposed national park in the Manitoba Lowlands, and an additional marine conservation area in James Bay.

Funds are allocated to complete and maintain the Trans Canada Trail system. The trail connects people across the country, touching every provincial and territorial capital and linking together 15,000 communities. Once completed, the trail will be within 30 minutes of almost 29 million Canadians.

I'd also like to say that I'm very proud of our support for the indigenous guardians program. I think people are very excited about that program, and working with indigenous peoples is key to protecting our special places.

Madam Chair, I would now like to turn your focus to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency. Our government's priority on this front is to restore public trust in the federal environmental assessment processes so that we can get resources to market sustainably in the 21st century. We want to introduce new processes that are fair and robust, are based on scientific facts and evidence, serve the public's interest, respect the rights of indigenous peoples, and require project proponents to use the best technologies available to reduce environmental impacts.

When we last met, I had announced an interim approach and principles to guide the assessment of major projects. Since then, we announced a review of federal environmental assessment processes last June.

An expert panel travelled across the country listening to Canadians, including indigenous peoples, on how to strengthen the environmental assessment process. On April 5, the expert panel report was released. We have been receiving comments from Canadians on the panel's recommendations. We'll be coming forward with proposals to achieve our goals based on the panel's report and other inputs, including discussions that we are having with indigenous peoples.

The Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency's total 2017-18 main estimates is $34.1 million. This is a net increase of $3.2 million, compared with the 2016-17 main estimates.

Together, the main estimates and new spending in budget 2017 will help create the clean-growth economy necessary for the collective health, prosperity, and security of this generation of Canadians and the next.

Before I close, I would like to take this opportunity to talk about the tremendous work you are all doing within this committee. The health and sustainability of the environment is not a political issue. It is a tremendous responsibility to Canadians and to future generations of Canadians.

As you've demonstrated with your unanimous report on protected areas, this committee has a remarkable track record of working in a collaborative manner in providing recommendations to our government on important issues. We take these recommendations seriously.

I'd like to thank you for the report and note that I met with my counterparts from the provinces, territories, and national indigenous organizations this February. An important outcome is the collaborative process that we've embarked on. We're calling it “pathway to target one”. It brings together all our partners to develop advice and guidance on how to achieve our 2020 Aichi targets. I look forward to providing an update as this work progresses and responding to your committee's report.

I also appreciated your thoughtful work in developing recommendations to strengthen the Federal Sustainable Development Act, another unanimous report, and one we hope to move forward on in the very near future.

Finally, over the past year you have also been carrying out crucial work with your review of CEPA, 1999. This summer my officials and I will be taking a close look at options to improve CEPA. Our government is open to meaningful changes, and your recommendations will help us in this effort.

As well, I am aware that the committee may be studying heritage places. I am looking forward to learning more about this work.

Finally, I want to thank all of you for the valuable contribution that this committee provides to all Canadians.

I look forward to your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much, Minister, for that great overview of the work your departments are doing and for the summary of the main estimates.

I'm going to turn it over to the committee for questions. First is Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister and team, for being here today. Thank you for acknowledging the work we've done to come up with not one but two unanimous reports. It's something we've worked very hard on, and something, as a committee, we're very proud of.

You spoke of some of the recommendations in our most recent report on protected spaces. One of the recommendations, I want to point out, envisioned the federal government partnering with municipalities, provinces, territories, and interested governments to work towards hitting our targets, the commitments we've made for protected spaces.

I think I probably have harassed you enough on this topic, when you walk by me all the time. When I talk about Blue Mountain-Birch Cove Lakes wilderness area in Halifax, I think about the impact such a partnership could have on this space. This would be our Rouge park.

The municipality is working hard to secure the appropriate lands, and I think of the impact a partnership with the federal government could have. I'm interested in your thoughts. With the perceived decrease in planned spending on protected areas in this budget, with the expectation that spending will go up but our time is running out, I'm interested in your thoughts on how partnering with other levels of government could impact our hitting the targets we've committed to.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Darren. You never harass me. It's fine.

I totally agree with you that we need to be partnering with municipalities. We need to be partnering with provinces. We need to be partnering with the private sector. There are private organizations that do really great work, such as the Nature Conservancy of Canada, so that we can meet our Aichi targets. That's why we've set up this working group with Shannon Phillips, the Alberta Minister of Environment, which is going to set out the pathway to Canada target one initiative. We need to bring all the partners together.

I will say that I recognize the need for additional funding. As we develop this, I will certainly be bringing that forward.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's perfect.

Few things are more iconic in the Halifax Regional Municipality than our town clock. We have many well-trained historical carpenters and tradespeople who are very capable of restoring large projects like this clock to bring it back to its former glory.

In May 2016 we heard that the clock would receive a facelift. We just heard, though, when the tender was released last month, that Parks Canada will consider or will be swapping out the original, historical wooden hand-crafted features that represent the architecture of this town clock, for more modern plastic and aluminum pieces. With Parks Canada funding increasing for visitor experience, it's my hope and everyone else's hope back in Nova Scotia that we would properly maintain and restore the historical infrastructure that we have.

Do you expect funding will be properly allocated to ensure that Parks Canada will take care of this treasure of ours, this national treasure?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for the question.

Making sure that we improve our heritage sites is very important to this government. Significant funding has been allocated for that. We are working with heritage experts to review the proposed conservation to ensure it respects the heritage character of the old town clock, of course while ensuring that we respect taxpayers' dollars in protecting this iconic structure for the future. This work is currently under review by the Federal Heritage Buildings Review Office and recommendations will be forthcoming. Work will protect the specific heritage character, defining elements of the structure, which would include windows and columns. I'm happy to follow up with you in more detail.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

When you talk about the review of the process, will the tender speak to...? Maybe we'll talk off-line about this. My concern would be that the tender would come out and would speak to the specifics of the new, modern pieces, whereas the review might speak to the importance of keeping it historically accurate. Again, I'll take this off-line with you, but I'm hoping there's a parallel there, so that one doesn't happen before the other, and we get a quote on something that's plastic and aluminum and then we decide later that we should do it the historical way.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I am happy to follow up off-line, but why don't I give Daniel Watson, the CEO of Parks Canada Agency, a chance to respond?

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

[Daniel Watson, Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency]

We've received some correspondence on that. Some challenging decisions are to be made about the structural integrity of different historical pieces. At times we have to make some challenging calls on how best to protect them for the future.

I know on this one that the local field unit superintendent has offered to meet with some of the interested correspondents on that front and have this conversation about the best way forward, and some of the reasons, at least, on how we've come to some of the conclusions that we announced in the tender on that front.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have one minute.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's all I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okey-dokey.

We'll move to Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before us this afternoon. Welcome back, and also welcome back to Jonathan Wilkinson. It's good to have you back at the table.

I'm going to jump right in. Let's talk about carbon taxes, or as you call it, carbon pricing, but I think Canadians better understand the term carbon taxes because they know this is coming out of their pockets. I believe every member around this table acknowledges Canada has a responsibility to address its greenhouse gas emissions and the impacts of it. Where we differ is how we do that.

Over the last year and a half, your government has crafted a climate change plan, which includes the imposition of a massive carbon tax on Canadians that will ramp up to $50 per tonne of emissions by 2022. Even though most provinces have some kind of a regime in place to do that, none of them has a $50 per tonne price. This is a policy that definitely comes out of your government.

Canadians have a right to ask what this will mean for them directly, for their families, and for their business. A report was prepared by your department. I'm assuming some of that work was started even before you got into government, but the report is dated October 20, 2015. That report appears to outline the impacts of the carbon tax.

I will quote very briefly from that report. It's from Paul Rochon to Jean-François Perrault and right on the front page it talks about the context and key findings. It says, “These higher costs”, referring to carbon taxes, “would then cascade through the economy in the form of higher prices, thus leading all firms and consumers to pay more for goods and services with higher carbon content.”

Then we go to the details and we read this memo, referring to the memo that presumably your department prepared, which provides an assessment of the economic greenhouse gas emissions impacts from a global carbon price. The key findings from our assessments are as follows. Bullet 1 is blacked out, redacted. Bullet 2, what these key findings were, is blacked out. Bullet 3 talks about the price that's required to limit the rise in average global temperature to two degrees. The actual price is blacked out. Bullet 4 is blacked out, nothing there, and so it goes throughout the whole memo.

There's a failure to let Canadians know what they're going to be expected to pay, what the impact will be on them and their families. Now we have this report that I believe, legitimately, Canadians should have full access to, given that it has such ramifications for them. In your mandate letter, Minister, there's a provision that says your government will be transparent and wants to improve transparency and openness with Canadians. I think this is a case where Canadians really have a right to know what a carbon tax will mean for them.

Can I get your commitment today to provide Canadians with a fully unredacted version of the report that was done within your government?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm extraordinarily proud that our government has put a price on pollution because we know any credible climate plan needs to have a price on pollution. We've taken an approach where we not only have a price on pollution but we have regulations, because we believe that is the most cost-effective way, keeping in mind competitiveness.

I will remind the member that we had a carbon pricing leadership coalition, which included major companies, energy companies, consumer goods companies, and all five banks. They said they support putting a price on pollution because it is the most efficient way to reduce emissions and to do what we also want to do, which is to foster innovation and create good jobs.

I was in California where we had major investments, major venture capital firms, private equity money, that are very excited about investing in Canada because we are moving forward on a serious climate plan and we are going to create the innovations that are going to create good jobs here. I will remind the member—

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Minister, the question was very simple. The report that was done by your department outlined the impacts of a carbon tax on Canadians. Will you provide Canadians with a fully unredacted copy, in other words a full copy, so that they can see for themselves what the impacts will be as identified by your departmental staff.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The report you are referring to was prepared under the previous government. It does not reflect our climate change plan.

We did put out an economic analysis of the pan-Canadian framework, including a document that goes through our approach to carbon pricing. The impact of carbon pricing will depend on each province's approach.

We have taken the approach that it is up to provinces and territories to put a price on pollution. Eighty per cent of Canadians live in a jurisdiction where there's a price on pollution, and the precise impact will depend on the approach taken by the province. It will depend on their economy, on what they plan on doing with the revenues, and on whether they put a direct price or they have a different system.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Minister, I just—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Mr. Fast, I hate to do this, but believe it or not we're past the six minutes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes or no, will you provide Canadians with a full impact analysis?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We have. We have given the full impact. I'm happy to direct you to the report that reflects what we are doing with our plan, not the previous government's approach.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We have to cut it off there.

Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Madam Minister, and your officials for being here. It's always nice to see Jonathan, and it's always nice to see Daniel because I see him frequently in our beautiful city.

My first questions to you, Madam Minister, relate to part of your mandate, which is to treat our fresh water as a precious resource that deserves protection and careful stewardship. Yet your government's budget in the main estimates allocate only meagre monies, and it appears to be only for the Great Lakes and Lake Winnipeg.

As you're aware, the result of the UNESCO investigation triggered by the Mikisew Cree has issued a very stern warning to your government. They have stated that there's a good chance our country will lose the designation or at least have Wood Buffalo listed as a site in danger unless you immediately—and these are their words—“develop a structured and adequately funded” action plan guided by their 17 very strong recommendations. Those include doing a study of the environmental flow assessment for the Peace, Athabasca, and Slave; conducting environmental and social impact assessments of site C, particularly in Alberta and in the Peace-Athabasca delta; and study the sufficient water supply for transporter communities and impacts on additional harvesting.

UNESCO also called on you to directly engage the indigenous peoples in the preparation of this plan, yet I hear from the Mikisew Cree that they have not yet been reached out to.

Can you tell me what action has been taken to make sure there is a timely response to UNESCO?