Evidence of meeting #8 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was strategy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Portfolio and Government Affairs Sector, Policy, Planning and Communications Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, our role is more of a secretariat type of function, where we provide support to Environment in establishing goals and providing some implementation support and guidance.
Director General, Portfolio and Government Affairs Sector, Policy, Planning and Communications Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No. Correct. That would be another part of my department, though, that's responsible for the parliamentary precinct.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
We could sure use a charging station to help with all those idling...we used to call them limos. They're not really limos anymore, are they? No. It's been a while.
Ms. Gelfand, just on this weighting of projects, of policies, this would help a lot. Again, you can weight things differently. You gave your example before about retrofitting a house, as to what's important and what's not. I can put climate change in the headline, as Mr. Godfrey said earlier, and that doesn't change anything. What changes it is if you actually give it some importance in the way you make your decisions.
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
There's no transparency on the weighting. How cabinet decides is a cabinet confidence. However, the cabinet directive that we're talking about on strategic environmental assessment does require public reporting when a scan leads to an assessment, and then a decision is made. It's supposed to be made public.
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
First of all, it's hardly ever done; therefore, it's hardly ever made public.
I believe that in my last report we found one out of four departments, with all the proposals and all the cabinet ones, we found one that was made public.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
You know what? You had three minutes before, and then I was adding four, so you have another minute and a bit. If there's anything else you want to ask, why don't you ask it now? I'm running backwards up the list for one more round. I gave you some extra time because you only had three at the end of the last round.
Are you done?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Okay, I just want to make sure because our guests, I know, organized quite a bit to try to get here and give us this chance to ask some questions, and especially Mr. Vaughan and Mr. Godfrey. They've really reorganized their lives to be here. I really appreciate it. I want to make sure we take advantage of that as much as we can.
The next one would be, if we're going backwards, Mr. Amos.
We'll go to Mr. Amos and end with you guys. Is that okay with you?
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
My apologies for my loquaciousness before. I would just like to go right back to where I was and invite Ms. Brand to comment, followed by Ms. Gelfand.
Paula Brand Director General, Sustainability Directorate, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment
Thank you for the question.
I would probably answer by saying that we have a very committed interdepartmental community in all of the departments, the 26 and the 37, that there are a lot of committed folks engaged in all of the measurement aspects of it.
One of the issues that we face writ large when it comes to indicators and measurements is the availability of data and timely data. I would probably just leave it at that.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you for that.
I wonder, with the minister's office's collaboration and the minister's consent—because I know that this request would have to come through them unless it was a whole-of-committee request—I think this committee would benefit from the department's own assessment of how this could be done much better.
Your own contributions to this committee, for example, around what data you are missing, would be so helpful to have. I would invite the minister's office to engage on that. I'll thank you. I'll leave that one with the parliamentary secretary.
Could I turn to Ms. Gelfand for a response.
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
I'm just going to check, Mr. Amos, whether you're asking what needs to change in order for the government to achieve measurability of climate emissions. Is that what you're asking?
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
We just heard the comment that for the government one of the key lacunae is data, and access to timely data. If we're going to actually measure government operations in emissions reduction, for example, what do we need? How do we create for Canadians a transparent scoring system so that Canadians, on a triennial basis, can know they're actually achieving something, or no they're not, they're getting 70% or 65%? What do we actually need in order to get there?
You're the ones measuring. What do you want measured?
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Absolutely. The government prepares its annual emissions report to the UN. You could ask the government to report more frequently to you, to me, to review those reports.
I remember our last audit on climate, where we looked at some of the regulations that have been put in place, yet we still couldn't tell whether or not the fuel efficiency regulations were achieving any reductions. There still wasn't any measurement capacity in place yet.
I'm struggling with trying to help you find an answer.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Sure. I don't want to focus on what Canada's doing vis-à-vis the world. I want to focus on what the federal government is doing in its operation.
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
In its own operation, in greening government....
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
In greening government operations, in our procurement, in our energy usage, in our crown corporation activities; I'm focusing solely on our house, which is, you know, a pretty big house.
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
The Public Works witness, Duncan, might be able to answer in terms of reporting on emissions, from the greening of government. Are you measuring that?
We could definitely look into it, in terms of an audit. That's a potential audit subject, right?
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
I think it would be fabulous if we actually understood what we have and don't have available to us to measure the entire federal government operation in greenhouse gas emissions.
I do take John's point around adaptations; that's a separate question, and I think a great question. I'm just choosing to focus on emissions and the Government of Canada.
President and Chief Executive Officer, International Institute for Sustainable Development
We'd be glad to share with the committee. I think there are examples outside of Canada, as you were asking. The U.K., for example, will specifically measure the carbon footprint of the U.K.. The Prime Minister has made commitments to move that down dramatically over a time period.
I'll ask my colleagues to pull up.... I can share this with the committee, through the clerk.