Environment Committee on Feb. 13th, 2018

[Bijan Mannani]

Dr. Yu is going to respond to that.

[Haitao Yu, Lead Researcher, Landmark Homes Canada]

In Alberta right now, the energy prices are really low, including the natural gas and electricity prices. They both are at historical lows. Now a single payback for a net-zero home is about 75 years or so. From an economical point of view, it's not that attractive actually. But we need to consider that net-zero homes are highly energy efficient homes and also provide a more comfortable living environment. There are now a lot of homebuyers...and we are also kind of marketing the net-zero homes and highly energy efficient homes from that perspective.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Okay, thank you.

My next question is for Michael McSweeney.

Good you see you again, Michael.

[Michael McSweeney]

Good to see you.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I've seen you a number of times with FCM stuff.

You mentioned the use of concrete pavement versus asphalt pavement and the lifespan. What about the cost comparisons of doing cement versus asphalt? Obviously, the lifespan is much, much better. It makes a lot of sense.

[Michael McSweeney]

From Ontario east, concrete today should beat asphalt pricing almost every time. We've won the last 12 or 13 tenders on the 400 series in the Toronto area, and we won those at first cost.

Concrete from Manitoba west is a little bit more expensive than asphalt on first cost. However, if you have to rebuild that asphalt highway four or five times in 50 years, that should be factored into the life cycle at the outset, and you make your decision based on the building material that's going to last the longest.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you.

Madame Chair, that's good for me. I'll pass it over to Will, who wants to ask a question.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Mueller and also for our guest on the phone.

I want to go a bit further down, from the homeowner's perspective. I appreciate that the big picture message is retrofits and new, large institutional settings. But I think that for society to shift, it will be a lot about new homeowners and what they are looking for.

What incentives does the federal government need to put in place to change the mindset of the individual homeowner, the person who is looking to build a home? I may look to build a new home. I like the idea of net zero. Convince me. How does that work?

I'm trying to move down the line my colleague Churence was going with that question. How do you get your money back?

[Thomas Mueller]

Maybe I'll let Landmark answer that first.

There have been programs over the years for homeowners to buy green homes. I think a percentage of homeowners will buy those homes, but there's not enough supply on the market. I would say that there's probably about 30% who will buy them because they want to buy them. They believe in it. Honestly, I don't think there's enough supply on the market across the country.

You talked about homeowners needing to be incentivized to buy a home like that. For me—and this always comes back to this cost discussion—actually, I don't necessarily believe that a green home is that much more expensive than a normal home, just like a green building is not necessarily more expensive than a conventional building. It depends on how you look at it. There have been many studies where they put down a list of green versus non-green, and the costs were.... It depends on what you want. People spend more on countertops—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Hear, hear!

[Thomas Mueller]

—than on energy efficiency. They were willing to spend the money there. They were just not willing to spend the money on energy efficiency. It's a preference for a certain type of home.

I don't buy that it's more expensive. I think I would challenge the home-building industry, actually, to step forward, because they could bring down those costs to a level where everybody could buy a home like that. It doesn't need incentives. It just needs the industry to step forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry we couldn't get more answers on that, because I think that's a good....

[Thomas Mueller]

Sorry that I took up all the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

No, it's okay. We may get back to that question. I think it's an important one.

Mr. Webber.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's good to be here sitting through this committee. It's my first time here. I usually sit on the health committee. With a background as a journeyman electrician, I find this a little more interesting than talking about Lyme disease and such.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Welcome, then.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

It's good to be here.

Anyway, I want to direct my question to Michael McSweeney.

I found your presentation very interesting. Concrete and cement, is there a difference between the two?

[Michael McSweeney]

If anybody ever offers to give you a set of cement shoes, that's the option to go for.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Is that right?

[Michael McSweeney]

Cement is a powder, like baby powder. Concrete—well, they're still looking for Jimmy Hoffa.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

All right. Good to know.

You talked about portland-limestone cement. I live about an hour from Lafarge, in Exshaw, Alberta. Have you been out there?

[Michael McSweeney]

Yes.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

That is a limestone cement plant. Correct?

[Michael McSweeney]

Yes.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Is that the portland limestone that you're talking about, that you want as a default product for...?