Evidence of meeting #3 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Terence Hubbard  Vice-President, Operations Sector, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada
Brent Parker  Acting Vice-President, Strategic Policy, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada
Ian Ketcheson  Director General, Crown Consultations Division, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada
Jennifer Saxe  Director General, Regional Operations, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada
Alison Clegg  Committee Researcher
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

I'd just like to clarify something that Ms. Findlay brought up.

In the last meeting, I said “Thank you very much to the witnesses. I know I cut some of you off when you were doing your presentations. The committee has asked if you could share your notes where applicable, and the clerk will also send you an email for follow-ups. As the committee knows, we have a meeting on Tuesday, and we will allocate 20 minutes for committee business where we will look at all the follow-ups of NRCan, etc., and we'll discuss moving forward our agenda.”

I did not say whether the meeting would be public or private. To be clear, I never mentioned whether we were going to be in camera or in public.

Having said that, we have received eight motions, and I guess the first one we received was from...you, Mr. Redekopp?

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I'm sorry, I have another point of order, Madam Chair.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Yes?

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I'm not exactly sure where to bring this up, so I'll bring it up now.

We have received the supplementary estimates in Parliament, and I'm wondering whether there is consensus that we ask the minister to come to committee before March 12 to discuss them.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you for bringing it up. That is why I suggested that, with the eight motions we have and the supplementary estimates (B) plus the main estimates, we have a whole calendar that we need to discuss. It is important that we not take up the committee's time, but go into a steering committee, where we would absolutely not curtail the committee's discussion time.

With that, I would suggest that the motions be brought forward here and that we discuss all the issues and prepare a timetable at the steering committee with the chairs and the vice-chairs and people appointed to the steering committee. I'd like to proceed with that; it is more effective and efficient.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I'm sorry, Madam Chair, but I don't quite understand what you're saying.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

What I'm saying is that all of the motions we have received will need to be presented so that these are noted in the minutes and in the blues. Then we will take all of these motions as a steering committee or a subcommittee and discuss how we schedule them within the timetable we have, including the supplementary estimates, the minister's appearance—which we could ask for—and the main estimates that will come.

We have a deadline for the supplementary estimates of March 26.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I understand that this is your preference, but it is our preference and our motion before this committee that those discussions on which motions will go forward and how we arrange that be discussed within the committee as a whole, rather than—

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Sorry.

Have you received a motion from the Conservatives?

10:20 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger

All the motions are here—

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

But is that motion there that the discussions not be...?

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

This is something that I gave notice of when we had our discussions last week. I told you, Madam Chair, which I thought was the appropriate way to go—

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

It's not a motion. I can take it, but I have to be neutral, so I have to get a motion from you to suggest that, and then it can be debated on the floor here.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

You're saying that I cannot make a motion here from the floor to this effect, as to where we discuss the motions?

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Let me look at the legality of it. If he says it's in order, then we can look at your motion.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you. It's my understanding that since we're in committee business, I don't need to give notice of this motion.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

It's debatable, but because we are in committee business and you have brought an issue forward, I would like to have a discussion on the matter.

Would you like to speak to why you do not want the steering committee to prepare a schedule?

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Essentially, we are just looking for as much transparency as possible. We think it is appropriate to have these discussions as to which motion should go forward—which has merit and which does not—in open committee. This isn't that large a committee; we're not dealing with a couple of dozen people. In the interest of being as open as possible in our discussions, we would like to see this dealt with in the committee as a whole.

With respect to the steering committee, obviously the steering committee will be dealing over time with witnesses and scheduling of witnesses and that sort of thing, but with respect to discussing what we are going to discuss over the coming months, we think it should be in full committee.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

My understanding, Madam Chair, is that the steering committee doesn't make binding decisions. It can prioritize, following discussion among the members of the steering committee. That's where we can try to make everything fit.

Notwithstanding that fact, if someone is in disagreement with the recommendation of the steering committee, they can table the motion and debate the motion in full committee. The full committee is always the final arbiter of what the committee's agenda is going to be, but the steering committee offers the opportunity to work out the wrinkles and, at the same time, save the committee's time.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Mr. Saini.

February 25th, 2020 / 10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

If I could use a personal example, in the last Parliament I was on the two steering committees of the two full committees I sat on. I found the steering committee to be useful in the sense that not only was priority given to prioritizing the motions, but there was also a certain sense of efficiency, because it was all done in a collaborative nature. All of the motions were brought forward. All of the issues were brought forward. It was itemized in a way that ensured that people had the opportunity to speak not only to their motions but also to the motions of their colleagues.

There was a certain efficiency that occurred, because depending on how the schedule worked and depending on how committee hearings were required per motion or per study, it was done in a very logical fashion, and in that way prepared everybody. Those discussions then were brought to the main committee because there's a representative from every party there. In my own experience, it was very efficient. It worked very logically. It was done in a very collaborative nature. Everybody had their opportunity to speak, and a lot of motions were accepted.

I think we should follow the same practice. I think that taking time away from committee meetings to do things that could be done somewhere else, especially when there's a premium on witness time.... I think it would just be more efficient if the bulk of that work were done in the steering committee. Like my colleague said, it's not binding in any way. It doesn't imprison us in terms of going in another direction, but it takes something that's more administrative away from the committee and allows us to hear more focus on the testimony of the witnesses and actually get to the heart of the matter for every study.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Mr. Redekopp.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

I fully agree with the need for efficiency, and I don't think we're opposed to doing the detailed stuff at the committee level, but I think Mr. Scarpaleggia said it well, in that if there's a disagreement, or if somebody wants an opinion on something, it can come back to the committee. I would suggest that on the issue of which studies we undertake, we would all have a say in that—and a lot to say.

In the interest of efficiency, rather than going to the committee, coming up with a schedule and then coming back here to have a bunch of discussions about which studies to do, I think it would be very beneficial to have that discussion first. That would be to advise and to inform the committee of the perspective of our whole committee on which studies would be important. I think that's why we feel that it would be very efficient to actually have the discussion here, with all of us, in public, and then that would inform the smaller committee in doing the details of the scheduling and so on.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Madam Findlay.