Environment Committee on Feb. 27th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Madam Findlay.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

I think it's very important that we have an opportunity to ask the minister. The minister is ultimately responsible. I think it's important that those meetings be televised as well. I'm sure we will have a lot of questions. I don't think it's sufficient just to have officials follow up later. Officials should be present and available at both meetings.

We do have time to delve into the main estimates. I think the 12th should be spent with officials on supplementary estimates (B). I'm content to say the minister will be in the first hour, officials the second.

We do need time with the minister to discuss the main estimates and ask all the questions we may have, and we need to have it televised.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Anyone else for questions?

For those who are new to this—and I'm coming from government operations and public accounts—the reason we have those officials coming on March 10 will be to talk to us about the estimate process. That will give us a little bit of education. If the minister is available for two hours and the main estimates have been deposited in the House, it is important that we do get the minister to respond to the main estimates. The main estimates go into the budget.

Sometimes the ministers are not available. We have that opportunity on March 12. If—and there's an if—the main estimates are deposited into the House, then we can get the minister to do both, but if they are not deposited, then this thing is hypothetical.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

If we're only going to focus on the main estimates, why are we even wasting our time with the supplementary estimates? Obviously there are two stages there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

The supplementary estimates are where the government gets the opportunity to spend the money. We allow them to spend the money. We can only change it for one dollar.

The supplementary estimates are where we allow the government to at least take a portion of the money and spend it before the budget comes. That's why we thought we could at least ask for the supplementary estimates and then look at the main ones. At government operations we were trying to do the cycle together—

I think I'll go to Mr. Longfield and then Madam Findlay.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I think what you're highlighting is that in the last Parliament we brought the budget and the estimates together. We were always discussing in the wrong period. This gives us an opportunity, before the budget is tabled, to be able to ask questions on the estimates. When the the budget is tabled, we'll have a point of reference for whatever is being allocated for the next fiscal period.

To lose the opportunity to talk about the main estimates before the budget is a lost opportunity I don't want to lose.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

This isn't about a lost opportunity. Having been a minister, I know it is the job of the government caucus to limit the minister's time in front of a committee.

We wish to have the opportunity to ask this minister all the questions that we have. This isn't about limiting time; it's about expanding time. It's about giving us enough time to discuss whatever we want to discuss with him, to ask the questions we want to ask of him and to have the time to do that.

If we deal with the supplementary estimates on the 12th, there is no reason that we can't then ask the minister to come back. There's time in there for him to come back and make himself available to this committee for our questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Madam Findlay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Mr. Schiefke.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I would like to respond to that by kindly saying to my honourable colleague that I think this minister has made himself very available to all the members. He has had individual meetings with each and every one of you so far.

Our job is not to try to limit the amount of time that the minister spends with you. That's not his job at all. He actually wants to ensure that he has as much time with you as possible and to respond to any questions that you have.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Perfect. No problem, then.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

However, knowing that the minister is busy—and you would know this very well, honourable member—we want to make sure that time is being utilized as well as possible. In this case, if we have the main estimates available at that meeting, the minister's time can be focused on dealing directly with those. Those directly relate to the budget. It is up to us as committee members to be able to manage that time. That is something I feel very strongly about. It's the way it's worked for the last four years, and even prior to that. It's up to us as committee members to make sure, if we have the opportunity, that we're prepared to ask those questions and that we're very focused on the budget and dealing with the subject matter at hand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Mr. Aitchison.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

With all due respect to my honourable colleague, our job as committee members is not to manage the minister's time and make sure we're helping him manage his schedule. Our job is to be here on behalf of Canadians and ask the questions that need to be asked. All we're saying is that we want to make sure we have enough time to do that.

I don't see that as unreasonable. The minister can manage his own schedule, thank you very much. We're here to ask the questions on behalf of the people of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Baker is next.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

In response to Mr. Aitchison, I would say that I agree that our job is to ask the questions that need to be asked. I think fundamental for me—and I think that's what I'm hearing from some of the members—is that if the mains are available, the questions that should be asked are questions about the mains, and if we don't put that into this motion, then we'll miss that opportunity with the minister while he's available. I think that's what we're really trying to get to here. It's to make sure that we're able to ask questions about the things that Canadians would expect us to ask questions about, which is in this case the mains, and that we do so when they're available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'm looking at the time.

Here is what I'm hearing. We want the minister for the mains. If we want the minister for the mains and the mains are tabled before the 12th, then the minister's answers respond to the mains. You do not have to worry about the supps—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I'm sorry, but that's not what you're hearing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Okay. I'm trying to find a compromise, saying that if the mains are tabled, your job is to ask questions on the mains because that goes into the budget. However, if that's not what you want and the minister is available for an hour or two hours, we will have ample opportunities to ask him questions, whether only the supps are there or the mains have arrived.

If you're not in agreement, I'll have to take a vote on it. I'm going to take a vote on motion 4, which says:

That pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee invite the Minister and departmental officials to study the Supplementary Estimates (B); and that if they have been referred to the committee, the Main Estimates.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

It is not for the chair to call the question when we're still in debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I thought we had finished.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

No, we have not. I've had my hand up for some time. I saw the clerk put my name before you. It is not for the chair to do what you're doing right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I thought you guys had beaten it to death, so if you want to—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

That might be your opinion, but if we feel that we still have something to say, we have the right to say it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madame Findlay, go for it.