Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was groundwater.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Amina Stoddart  Assistant Professor, Dalhousie University, Global Institute for Water Security
Andrew Hayes  Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Kimberley Leach  Principal, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Glenn Purves  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Marcia Santiago  Executive Director, Expenditure Strategies and Estimates, Treasury Board Secretariat

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

To Mr. Mazier's question, if something is not utilized, it goes back to the consolidated revenue fund, doesn't it?

March 10th, 2020 / 10:40 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

It's just not used. The department may not draw that funding in. It has the authority to be able to draw an existing amount in, up to an amount that was identified by Parliament. It would just not be drawn in, and what was actually used would be reported in the public accounts.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you, Mr. Purves.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

10:40 a.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Purves, I'll ask my two questions right now, and you'll have the rest of the time to answer them.

In the committee, we must look at environmental spending. However, other planned spending, such as the Department of Natural Resources' spending, also affects the environment. Does our committee cover this spending or does another committee cover it?

My second question concerns what are known as horizontal items. Do these items have anything to do with the fact that other committees are looking at goals that affect the environment?

10:40 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

Thank you for your questions. I'll respond in English.

You're not limited in the questions you can ask. You can ask questions pertaining to any items in the estimates. The only thing I would point out is that to ensure there's clarity and transparency about items that cover multiple departments, we have this horizontal item reporting at the beginning. I think plastics is one. It covers a number of different departments. You can ask questions pertaining to the broader initiative.

However, if you're asking a question pertaining to spending being proposed by another department and your committee doesn't cover that department, the witness you're asking could always get back to the committee with a response. We try our best, as witnesses, to answer your question as broadly and as precisely as we can to address the circumstance. There are different committees that cover different departments, and they may be asking similar questions pertaining to horizontal initiatives, and it's entirely reasonable to ask that question.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

Madam Collins, for two and a half minutes.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Thank you so much. For me as a newly elected member, this presentation was really helpful, so thanks.

My question is about the things that don't fall into these estimates, such as the Trans Mountain expansion project. The $4.6 billion to buy the pipeline never came to Parliament. I'm guessing that the $12.6 billion the government is intending to borrow to finish the construction isn't in here.

Where in this process does that fall?

10:40 a.m.

Marcia Santiago Executive Director, Expenditure Strategies and Estimates, Treasury Board Secretariat

Within the process, the committees are open to ask any question about anything. There's no restriction on subject matter.

In relation to the estimates specifically, the formal function of the committee is to receive the votes that are referred to this committee. So in the estimates process and in the supply process, the committee's report back to the chamber concerns only the specific votes in the appropriation bill, but that doesn't stop you from asking questions about any of those other things.

If you're wondering about where you would see the reporting on the actual spending and where those authorities come from, those are not just under statutory authorities but are a separate kind of statutory authority. In the case of Trans Mountain, it's under statutory authority that's not even reported in the estimates at all. It's the Canada Account.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

What is the Treasury Board of Canada's role in the borrowing of that $12.6 billion?

10:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Expenditure Strategies and Estimates, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marcia Santiago

The short answer is very little. There are specific authorities related to the program that are under the purview of Treasury Board. So we might have technical involvement, in the approval of corporate plans, for example, that set out the incremental spend and that sort of thing, but in that particular case, it's very indirect. That's mostly a matter of the ministers being involved and, of course, the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

I think you have simplified it too much, but I think there are lots of issues, especially between the main estimates and the budgets. When I was on the OGGO committee, I used to wonder why we were approving the main estimates when they didn't relate to the budget. So I think we'd also all like to know how the reconciliation process takes place, and perhaps at another time we might have you back to help us out with that.

Thank you very much. I'll excuse the witnesses.

I have just a quick motion from Madame Pauzé. She would like to have breakfast provided at this committee.

All in favour?

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

I wasn't thinking of a hot meal, but rather a cold meal with a few small items to go with the coffee, if people agree.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay, are fruit and pastries fine enough?

10:45 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thanks. We'll have that at our next meeting.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.