Evidence of meeting #24 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recycling.
A video is available from Parliament.
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Yes. Right now the concentration that we know will affect 5% of species is found in certain parts of the marine environment and also in certain areas of fresh water, including the Great Lakes.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
I also want to refer you to some research that was done last year out of Utah State University. I think you provided a commentary for that article. I don't want to say I found it interesting, but it was interesting in one way.
One of the things the article said.... I know the research is emerging also. We talk about ocean microplastics and we talk about landfills, but there's recently been some research suggesting that there is widespread airborne microplastic pollution that could pose a risk to human health and has already polluted even the remotest corners of the earth. I think you mentioned the Arctic. They have some studies that found particles there also.
How big a cause of concern do you think this is, and how do we address it?
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
You're talking about the paper by Brahney et al. in Science Magazine last year, understanding and basically showing us that microplastics cycle in the water cycle and cycle in the global dust cycle. We're starting to understand how that relates to the carbon cycle.
What this says to me is that microplastic is ubiquitous and persistent enough that it's getting into these fundamental planetary cycles. Then you ask what it means and what we can do about it.
I think there's urgency to do something. I think there's a tool box. I see the plastic issue as similar to the climate issue, in the sense of there not being one solution. We need to use many levers at the same time, one of which is reducing the amount of plastic waste we produce, which is what we're talking about here today.
Others are filters on washing machines, filters on dryers, stormwater retention systems like bioretention cells and thinking about how to make Operation Clean Sweep even stronger so that we're not losing pellets into the environment. It's these types of things.
I don't have a favourite solution, unfortunately. I think they're all important and, as with carbon emissions, we have to tug on a little bit of everything.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We'll head into our last round, and I think we're going to end on time.
Mr. Albas, you have five minutes, please.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. What an engaging panel this has been.
I'm going to go to Dr. Rochman. First of all, thank you for your presence and the work you do.
When you speak about microplastics, particularly in ocean aquatic settings, you have observations and you've also done some testing. Where is this plastic is coming from? Is this Canadian plastic that has been released into the oceans, or is it just too difficult to tell?
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I appreciate that question. Unfortunately, it's too difficult to tell. People have tried to think about ways you can trace it.
The best information we have is the paper from Jenna Jambeck et al., trying to say how much is coming from each country, but it doesn't take into account waste that's shipped overseas.
Unfortunately, when it comes to microplastics, it's pretty difficult to know where it comes from. We do better at knowing whether it's tire dust or whether it's coming from washing machines, etc., and identifying the different pathways.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I find that a lot of the best measures require made-in-Canada solutions. For example, Megan Leslie, the former deputy leader of the NDP, proposed a ban on microplastics, particularly in hand creams and whatnot. That was something that the Harper government agreed [Technical difficulty—Editor] a lot of microplastics from getting into fresh water. Now we have Scot Davidson, a Conservative MP from near Lake Simcoe, who is a big champion for that. He has proposed to actually ban exports of plastic waste for final disposal because he believes that Canada needs to take responsibility and that Canadian companies, Canadian governments and Canadians themselves can recycle and keep a lot of these things away from the ocean or from our lakes. Do you agree?
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Are you asking if I agree with the change in our exports of plastic waste?
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Yes. Do you think that's an important step?
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Is it to stop our export of plastic waste, full stop?
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Yes, sending it outside of Canada for final disposal. As you mentioned, some of it, from certain jurisdictions, is dumped plastics that are impossible to trace.
Assistant Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I will say that I'm not an expert in this, so it's hard for me to just give you a yes or no. I agree that made-in-Canada solutions are great and that we should learn how to take care of our waste at home, but I don't feel that I have the expertise to really comment on the shipping of plastic waste.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Okay.
I'd like to go back to Mr. Galt.
Mr. Galt, you were mentioning that the manufactured plastic designation in the CEPA schedule is causing all sorts of issues reputationally for your industry, which may see investment deferred away. You talked about how, given COVID-19, we're using so much single-use plastic for medical applications. What is the scientific...? Are the molecules in a single-use plastic that would be used in a medical application the same ones that may be used in any of these six items that the government seems to have chosen, based on its own criteria? Are they the same molecules?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
The answer is yes. Fundamentally, that's the issue. Yes, you have hybrids and you have mixtures of materials and additives. However, if we look at the primary plastics, what most people maybe don't understand is....
Let's look at this model, at PET. Well, heart stents, things that are used in arteries for over 60 years [Technical difficulty—Editor] gets complicated. If you look at a family of medical devices and you look at commonly used plastics, you see that they are the same material. When you think about this regulation and this issue of toxicity, you can imagine the challenge that it represents: life-giving products and waste, both captured under the same designation.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Canada prides itself as a country under the rule of law. If there are potential Criminal Code charges that could be laid in violations of CEPA, does having this ambiguity—by including manufactured plastic as a general category—not create a tremendous amount of uncertainty? Doesn't that then bring in arbitrary situations, one-offs?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
That's exactly what it does. It's uncertainty. We talk about the issues of jobs and investment; it's the uncertainty that's driving that investment out of Canada. What it means is that we're going to remain dependent on imported goods. As we've seen, I think, in difficult times, Canadians can be second-class citizens if we don't have a made-in-Canada supply chain. That's exactly what it's doing.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Ms. Mantagaris, you were mentioning that in Etobicoke—Lakeshore, and I think it was Etobicoke you mentioned, that there were certain jobs at risk. Can you give us more of a broad idea of where some of these job losses might occur if there's this level of uncertainty?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We're at five minutes, but I see that Mr. Albas has another question coming up, I believe. Perhaps he could be provided with the answer in that second segment.
You're up again, Mr. Albas?
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Yes. I was also going to ask Mr. Galt if he could share with the committee the poll that he mentioned to Mr. Bachrach.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay, thanks. We'll get back to you, Mr. Albas.
Mr. Bittle, you have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll go to Mr. Galt first.
When you were talking about the gold standard [Technical difficulty—Editor] pushing those gold standards or if your company was lobbying against them. I can appreciate that you may not know that, so if you don't know, you can get back to our committee.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
No, I've been with this company forever. I started in the print room and worked my way up to CEO. I have lived in Europe and travelled abroad, so I'm very familiar with the history of Husky. We've always been strong advocates for the reuse of a reusable material.
Yes, I—