Environment Committee on April 26th, 2021

[Marc Olivier]

The word bioplastics causes a lot of confusion. Because the word starts with the prefix “bio”, people believe that bioplastics are biodegradable. That is not the case at all.

We can manufacture any kind of permanent plastic, like the plastics we all know, using existing biomass material instead of fossil material. Some major projects like Coca-Cola and so on are suggesting that, in five or 10 years, all the stacks of plastic bottles they used to sell bottled drinks will be made from “bio” sources. That is not impossible, because those plastics can be blended with plastics from another source to make them recyclable.

The problem is when people send materials that are “biofragmentable”, biodegradable, for recycling, which is total nonsense. It costs more to manufacture materials that do not even last. We don't want to operate like that. When we manufacture plastics, we absolutely have to make sure that they contribute to sustainable development, that they are recycled and made into something new.

Currently, using the word “bioplastic” causes a huge amount of confusion, with students and with the general public alike.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Exactly.

In fact, the plastics industry places a lot of emphasis on the strength, the quality and the reliability of its virgin plastic. Other kinds are recycled, compostable, “bio”. I am certainly confused.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, your time is up, but you will have the opportunity to finish your comments when you are answering another committee member.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to make a quick comment. The witnesses have so many interesting things to teach us, that I would appreciate them sending any additional information they may have to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Picking up where I left off with Mayor Vodanovic, I'm wondering how familiar you are with the B.C. EPR system and whether the products.... That's not my question—I understand you're very familiar—but I have a specific question about whether the products that are currently being considered for banning are being recycled in that EPR system.

Are they being captured or are there characteristics that make it very difficult for an EPR system to capture those specific product types?

[Maja Vodanovic]

I think it's very difficult to capture straws and plastic.... There are certain things that are just not...especially take-out containers. I mean, you throw them out; you don't take them home with you. At least if they were made out of recycled content and used first.... I don't want to get into it, but I'm sure that many things end in the garbage.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My understanding is one of the constraints with food containers is contamination. We're not allowed to put food containers that have food residue in the recycling stream. Is that one of the constraints?

[Maja Vodanovic]

The more plastic is dirtied—and I'm sure Tony would know better—the harder it is to recycle. The purer something is, the easier it is to recycle. If it's soiled, it's a problem.

I know our recycling system more than the B.C. one, but I was very happy to go to B.C. and to discover how good it is.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You mentioned earlier that one of the challenges is the inexpensive nature of virgin resin in creating plastic products. I believe you alluded to the fact that we subsidize the fossil fuel industry very heavily in Canada.

How do you see this being addressed by the federal government, and how important is that in reaching the circular economy?

[Maja Vodanovic]

It takes a lot of courage, I think, but it's billions of dollars, and I know the provincial government also gives billions of dollars, not just in direct subsidies to the oil industry but also to build new factories for virgin plastic products. A recent one was built in Alberta, and in the United States too there are many plastics factories that are being built with shale gas, so it's very cheap right now.

In order to combat this, that's why we need to put in that it's an obligation to put in recycled content, because otherwise nobody will do it. Nobody is crazy enough to buy something that's four times more expensive, but we need to do it for the environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Redekopp, you have five minutes, please.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cantin, about two years ago your organization released a statement praising the new safe food for Canadians regulations coming into force. I read in there that you said the CFIA also met with national organizations, including your organization, to ensure all considerations with respect to the regulations were addressed. The statement said, “We wanted to make sure that, from retailers’ point of view, the regulations made sense and that there was flexibility built in to them in order for retailers across the country to realistically and efficiently comply with all requirements.”

I asked Environment Canada a few weeks ago if they had consulted with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and the CFIA, and they were very hesitant to answer or elaborate.

Was your organization consulted regarding the plastics ban? If so, were you satisfied that the government listened to you?

[Philippe Cantin]

We were consulted, yes. I think we had multiple meetings on that, so we can say we were consulted. The interaction with CFIA's food safety standards requirements is important to take into consideration, because sometimes requirements introduced by the government might hinder some of Environment Canada's approach on certain items. You have to make sure Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and CFIA have as many conversations as Environment Canada does with certain stakeholders, because clearly there are interactions between the two jurisdictions.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Are you satisfied that, when these regulations come into effect on January 1, your members can guarantee the effectiveness of food safety in their retail locations?

[Philippe Cantin]

Since I'm the sustainability person, I can't say I'm as well versed on food safety as some of my colleagues would be, so I couldn't answer your question in terms of whether our members welcome the food safety requirements, but I know this has been part of the discussions we've had in the last couple of years, and they've adapted to the new reality.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Maybe there's a different way to ask that question. You earlier testified that you would like to see a one-year notice to allow your members time to do things like use up existing inventory and properly plan for this implementation. Do you feel like you've had enough time and consultation to accomplish all those things that need to get done?

[Philippe Cantin]

Are you referring to the CFIA requirements?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

No, just to the plastics ban that's going to be coming in here in January.

[Philippe Cantin]

If there is an implementation period of one full year between the moment the ban is announced and it's effective, then yes, that would be essentially what we're asking. I think we're reiterating that to make sure the message is heard, especially for smaller businesses that tend to buy in bulk for a full year. You don't want to be in a situation where you hurt smaller businesses because they've stocked more than they needed on certain materials because they want to have access to the best price possible. You don't want to be in a situation where you're hurting smaller businesses more than others. That's the reason we're looking for a full-year implementation timeline.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

As you said before, they may end up just throwing extra materials into the waste anyway if they can't use them anymore.

We've also heard today that this initial ban that's being spoken about is just the beginning and there's ongoing discussion about declaring many more forms of plastic as toxic. As we move down that road to banning more things, there has to be cost implications.

From your perspective of this current plastics ban that's being looked at, what cost is that going to add to consumers at the grocery store? Have your members spoken about the cost implications of not being able to use these types of straws versus another type of straw? Have there been any studies or economic analyses done of this that can be shared with us?

[Philippe Cantin]

We haven't had studies per se on that. We've asked members to look at what the price differences were, but the market has been adapting quite quickly. There are lots of new materials that are alternatives to plastic that have been introduced on the market. As a result, the prices for them have changed as well.

It's hard to pinpoint what the cost implications would be at this point for replacing those single-use items with new ones. Again, the market is evolving really quickly. You can notice that a lot of businesses have adopted cardboard-based and fibre-based containers to replace styrofoam, for instance, in the past couple of years. As a result, those items are not necessarily as expensive as they used to be. They're still more expensive than styrofoam-based containers; I just couldn't tell you how much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Ms. Saks for five minutes.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses today.

I agree with Madame Pauzé. We're learning so much in this discussion today, and it's extremely valuable.

In a previous session, I noted that we're recycling about 256,000 tonnes of plastic a year, but we're producing about 20 times that in virgin resin at the moment. There's a cost to that. We've talked a lot about costs to produce and so on, but there's an environmental cost to all of this.

I'd like to ask whether the environmental cost of virgin resins compared to recycled resins is reflected in the market today. Should that full cost be reflected for those materials so that consumers can make informed choices, and so that the secondary market for recycled material is balancing out?

Either Madam Vodanovic or Mr. Moucachen can start.

[Maja Vodanovic]

I'll answer. Of course, that is exactly the objective, because the environmental cost of global warming is, we know, in the billions of billions of dollars.

The bottle that is made purely of recycled resin should, in the end, cost more to the consumer than one that is made partially from recycled material, because I know it's very hard to do it completely for now. At least it is a part—as Mr. Moucachen says, a marriage of the two.