Evidence of meeting #28 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you very much to all the witnesses for coming today.
Ms. Wallis, we've looked at the environmental impacts, but there's also the human impact, the terrestrial impact and the animal impact. We know there are long-term effects of bioaccumulation of microplastics in the food chain. What toxic effects of that apply to the animal world?
5 p.m.
Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada
If you really want to get into the deep science I would recommend Dr. Chelsea Rochman, who already spoke to the committee. She is an expert in all the current and upcoming science demonstrating impacts that microplastics have on wildlife, fish and potentially even us.
You brought up a great point about microplastics. Some microplastics are designed as microplastics. Those would be things like microbeads, which the federal government has already banned, but some microplastics come from the fragmentation of macroplastics. Larger plastic items, when left to wear in the environment, break into smaller pieces, and then those smaller pieces are easily consumed by wildlife. They're almost impossible to remove from the environment, and those are the kinds of plastics that are showing up inside our bodies.
I want to point out, and I know I mentioned it in my opening remarks, the study that recently found microplastics in human placenta, but there also was a recent study put out—pre-published, so it's still pending peer review—that found that microplastics impede our respiratory cells' ability to repair themselves, which is terrifying to begin with, but particularly terrifying in the middle of a respiratory pandemic, when as much as possible we want to make sure our respiratory systems are fully functional.
I think this is a new area of science. These two studies I just mentioned have come out in the last six months, since the federal government's science assessment on plastic pollution, and I am sure we are going to hear more and more of these kinds of stories. If we are following the precautionary principle, we need to do everything we can right now to keep these plastics out of the environment and out of our bodies.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Basically, what I'm hearing from you is that microplastics can affect the food chain, which will affect animals on one end, but also that our consumption and non-consumption of microplastics could also have a biological effect on our bodies.
5 p.m.
Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada
Microplastics can be ingested directly. Fish could ingest microplastics when they're eating something else. We could ingest microplastics by ingesting a fish that has microplastics in its tissue. We could also ingest microplastics directly from the air we breathe or the water we drink. These microplastics are everywhere, and as I said, there are definitely studies showing that they are having a negative impact on wildlife, including behavioural changes and changes in reproduction. We're just starting to hit the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the potential impacts on human health.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
I was reading an article in Nature on a study done at the University of Utah last year, and one of the findings was that they found nanoparticles in different parks, on different parts of our Earth, being carried by the air or being aerosolized. Can you comment on that?
5 p.m.
Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada
Yes, I have read that study as well. What's happening is the plastics are breaking down into really small pieces. Nanoplastics are smaller than microplastics, and plastics were showing up in wild areas in the United States, for example, far away from civilization, suggesting that these plastics were being picked up by the wind and the air and being redistributed. Plastic has literally been found everywhere on the planet, including far Arctic regions and Mount Everest. We know these plastics are not just being deposited in these locations as litter. They're ending up in these areas because they are travelling on ocean currents and winds, etc.
5:05 p.m.
Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada
No, it is a ubiquitous global environmental problem.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Mr. Lee, very quickly, what would the municipal recycling programs look like under an extended producer responsibility regime?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Waste Management, Regional Municipality of Peel
I can give you the example in Ontario, and I think it could be a good example. The province would set targets for the collection of various materials and they would, of course, oversee and enforce us. The producers would have the ability to implement that and achieve those targets generally as they see fit, as long as they meet accessibility targets for all people. Then producers perhaps would hire municipalities to provide service to them, or they would hire private sector [Technical difficulty—Editor] to provide service to them. They would collect, they would communicate with the public and they would report on their, hopefully, success.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I don't have much time, Mr. Goetz, but I would like you to finish the answer you started to give me earlier, at the end of my previous turn.
You said that there were higher targets in Ontario, set at 80%. What is the figure for Quebec?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian Beverage Association
Thank you for following up. I really appreciate that, because I was cut off a bit there.
I'll be very quick. Our target for beverage collection in Québec is 75% by 2025 and 90% by 2030.
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian Beverage Association
We're already hitting about 75%, but the province, working with industry, has announced an expansion of the deposit program in Quebec. We are currently working with the provincial government on building that expansion. You'll see announcements about that coming out in the very near future, but that program is going to be dramatically expanded.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Okay. I have to stop you there, because I have only two and a half minutes.
I would like to point out that your website is only in English, which makes it a little difficult for us.
I have a question for Ms. Wirsig from Environmental Defence Canada.
Ms. Wirsig, you talked a lot about the just transition for workers, which I really appreciate. Actually, 86% of Canadians support a national ban on single-use plastics. We heard the honourable minister talk about job losses. You talked about a just transition. Could you elaborate on that?
5:05 p.m.
Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada
Thank you for your question. I will answer it in English.
It's a little easier after all the research I've done in English.
We've heard a lot in this study about potential job losses, and we've heard some today about potential job losses related to the bans on single-use plastics. We would argue that there are immensely more job opportunities available with getting away from single-use plastics, getting to the manufacturing of more durable containers, including durable plastic containers, and setting up reuse systems.
I believe the witness from Recyc-Québec talked about that last week; that is, about the potential of job creation through other kinds of programs that are key to a green economy. They also provide, if I could say, safe and toxic-free jobs to Canadians.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question for Mr. Lee.
Mr. Lee, we've heard from the industry about the promise of chemical recycling.
Can you share your perspective on the potential of chemical recycling from a municipal view and what you see any of the challenges being?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Waste Management, Regional Municipality of Peel
We have been tracking chemical recycling and other advanced recycling technologies over the past couple of years. They hold some promise or potential, but in practice they're still not there.
We have worked with some other municipalities on some pilots to recycle plastics in these new advanced technologies. They're still very sensitive to any contamination on the plastic stream and to any changes in moisture content. It's going to take some work to get them to the point where they can be developed at scale to tackle this problem.
Alberta has a very large chemical facility in Edmonton. They tend to begin producing ethanol or methanol-type products, or, as some of the witnesses have said, some fuel products, to get their chemical reactions going well. Scientifically, I'm told, they can eventually switch over to producing new plastic polymers that could be used, but that has to be proven still.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you.
You mentioned earlier that one of the challenges for municipalities and local governments is the lack of consistency in recycling standards from community to community.
We heard earlier some concerns about a one-size-fits-all approach. Are there times when a consistent approach federally makes sense and would maximize our waste diversion and recycling rates?
