Evidence of meeting #40 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was racism.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Dr. Jones, could you hold the mike closer to your mouth again?
Community Activist and Archivist, As an Individual
Thank you.
I talk too much, don't I?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
No, it's not that. It's just for the interpreters. The mike needs to be higher up.
Liberal
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
I know.
I'd like to carry that a little further. I have extensive work in shared society building on another side of the world, in Israel and Palestine. One thing I've learned in this process when you consult with communities is that you learn a lot, but you also learn where the gaps are. We were talking earlier about the data, and I'll open this up to other witnesses who are here, as well. What information or knowledge gaps do we have right now when it comes to environmental justice and environmental racism as we move forward with this?
I may want to ask, Dr. Jones, if some of our other witnesses want to weigh in with you, of course.... Perhaps someone else will pick up.
Community Activist and Archivist, As an Individual
I could say so much. When we started on environmental racism through the ENRICH project, I still remember.... This is the truth. When I was bringing up the flooding issues in our community and was told that flooding was not an environmental racism issue, that's where we started. That was a gap. Even in the definition, there's this big, packed, long definition of environmental racism. My community wouldn't get their heads around those fancy definitions, but they know what happens when the flood waters come through their homes. They lose homes. They have prepared for generations, so they know all about that. There are so many gaps that, as we work through this—and I work on these concerns—the community's getting involved more, and the community is able to address its own concerns.
I'm concerned about some of the things around Quebec and issues that have been brought forward, but I'll just leave it. I won't go there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
You have time for a quick comment, Ms. Saks. We have about 20 seconds left.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
I see that Mr. Gaudreault wants to weigh in in 30 seconds. I certainly hope one of my colleagues picks it up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Ms. Saks.
We're really getting down to the end here. We have time for, I guess, a two-minute round, each party getting essentially one question and one answer.
I don't have any names yet for the Conservative Party. Who would like to ask one question of our witnesses?
Go ahead, Mr. Albas.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I'll just continue on, and perhaps Dr. Jones has already responded to it, so I'll just put it in a slightly different way. I would just say that, if you were in charge of doing these consultations.... It is a big country. There is a lot of history, and there are a lot of different communities, municipal governments, indigenous communities and the Black community she mentioned in Truro, for example. Where do you start?
Ms. Gue, if you were in charge, where would you start? To me, if I were working for Environment and Climate Change Canada, that would be the hard one.
Manager, National Policy, David Suzuki Foundation
Just to come back to this point—and I know we've emphasized it a lot—the data collection requirement in this bill is going to be very important to help inform prioritization, to the extent that that needs to happen. I agree with Dr. Jones' earlier comments as well, that the purpose of a strategy is to be broad and broadly applicable. I think this bill very well sets out a broad scope and then also provides the tools with the requirement, again, for data collection and assessment to help to define priorities.
Liberal
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I'll just simply thank everyone for their attendance today.
Thank you.
Liberal
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Mr. Bittle has generously turned over his time to me.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
This was a delightful meeting.
Dr. Jones, thank you for all you've done, today and previously.
I sit on the public accounts committee, and the Auditor General audits the United Nations sustainability goals. We do gender-based analysis on all of our programming. Is there a standard we should be looking towards for a governance committee to use in terms of auditing against systemic racism?
Community Activist and Archivist, As an Individual
Notice I said “you”.
Because we haven't done these collections.... I'm seeing that more in the health data because we've been working a lot with the data around health with COVID in the groups I work with.
Also, there are concerns, because data can also be used against communities, not for communities. I can't answer that question quickly, because there are so many parts to it. It has to be informed data, and that is not—
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
I'm thinking that South Africa went through truth and reconciliation. We are going down some of those roads. How do we stop people from relocating other people to garbage dumps?
Community Activist and Archivist, As an Individual
First of all, we have to admit that we're doing that, and that's a problem we have in this country. We refuse to admit that these things are happening, and we keep trying to point out examples where it's happening on a basis to somebody else when, in fact, this is talking about disproportionate impact. That's the key. Until you accept that and admit it, we're not going anywhere.