Evidence of meeting #7 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicles.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Excuse me, Mr. DiCaro. Madame Pauzé is trying to get another question in.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
I do indeed have another question.
I gather that you agree with a collaborative industrial strategy. You're also saying that the benefits are almost immeasurable in terms of job creation and the economy. I would also add the environmental benefits.
Don't you think that, with federal legislation, the Canadian market would be in a better position to meet the demand for zero-emission vehicles?
How would this type of mandate affect your members?
5:10 p.m.
Director of Research, Unifor
I suppose there would be an added benefit for the federal government to wade in, in this case. I couldn't tell you on a measurable scale what that would mean for future assembly, other than to say it would be an example of how all jurisdictions need to pull these pieces together. Without the federal government involved, I think that would be an omission.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Connecting to this conversation about producing more vehicles in Canada, I'm curious about the barriers and opportunities of that. How can we make sure we're meeting the demand for electric vehicles? Also, what kind of retraining and income supports do Canadian auto workers need to support a just transition to a zero-emissions future?
I'll start with Mr. DiCaro, and then go to Mr. Smith, if he has anything to add.
5:10 p.m.
Director of Research, Unifor
Thanks for that.
This is something we've spent quite a bit of time trying to forecast out. Of the vulnerable sectors of the auto supply chain right now when we talk about transitioning, it's going to be in the powertrain segment of the industry. Engines and transmissions are going to change significantly.
Even forecasts of EV sales globally still project about half the market being filled by ICE vehicles. It seems like commercial trucks, for instance, are absent from these zero-emission vehicle mandates. We have to put that into perspective because Canada sources both the trucks and the cars. That's something that has to be on our radar.
The other piece is that as plants transition, as will happen with Oakville, we have to see how long these transition times will take in our next round of bargaining. I can assure you that, if this is going to be a two-year or a 16-month transition to get that plant retooled, there are going to be questions about income supports for those workers as they retrain and wait for these cars to come online.
This is front and centre. I think the act of collective bargaining gives us an opportunity to explore that. Certainly our employment insurance system and our training systems are going to have to be looked at more carefully.
5:15 p.m.
Analyst, The Pembina Institute
Absolutely.
I'll just quickly add on to the great remarks we just heard. Pembina Institute did some engagement with stakeholders in the affected auto sector communities. One thing we will note is that the Canadian auto sector is already in decline, so this thinking about retraining and about a just transition has to happen anyway.
One thing we did find was that a lot of those stakeholders in affected communities showed high levels of enthusiasm to retrain for an electric vehicle future.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Mr. Smith, could you send that in writing to the committee, and Mr. DiCaro as well? If either of you have any follow-up information on a just transition for auto workers, could you send some information to the committee?
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to join you here today.
My first question is going to be for Ms. Goldberg.
A quick look shows that there are over 20 charging stations here in Saskatchewan; however, the majority of them are located in our urban centres. While we know that EVs are extremely useful for internal city travel, the long charge times and lack of infrastructure make them completely impractical for rural or farm life.
I'm wondering if you would speak to when the industry or yourself at ChargePoint might be able to give us a timeline on when this might be expected to change.
5:15 p.m.
Director of Public Policy, Canada, ChargePoint
Thank you.
We are already seeing that vehicle batteries are getting bigger and have longer ranges. There are a number on the market that are 500-plus kilometres. More availability is going to be key for those areas with longer ranges. In the area you're talking about, it's really important to ensure we have infrastructure in our rural and remote areas and in Canada's north, so Canadians can drive coast to coast and within your province.
Where we see an important role for the program that Natural Resources Canada is currently rolling out, as we move forward, is to really focus on those areas in your region in particular to see if these programs are working or if we need to tweak them to ensure that a wide range of entities are investing in charging infrastructure in those areas, so we can connect communities across Canada.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you very much. I appreciate the work that's being done.
I did want to allow Mr. Smith to finish the conversation and complete the answer that he was giving to my colleague, Mr. Jeneroux, in regard to the financial incentives that are being created specifically in regard to the Tesla Model 3.
5:15 p.m.
Analyst, The Pembina Institute
Yes, absolutely.
Mr. Jeneroux, if I understood the question correctly, talked about how a significant number of EV purchasers are purchasing Tesla Model 3s, which are in that luxury or higher-end segment of the electric vehicle market, and how a top-up of the iZEV program would contribute to equity.
The point I made is that, at least for that program in particular, the federal incentives program, it does cap the vehicle price at about $45,000 to $55,000, so if the Tesla Model 3 was incentivized through that program it would have to be a Tesla Model 3 that cost less than $55,000.
I would also note that data indicates that the average light vehicle sold in Canada in 2019 was about $41,000, which is a bit less than the maximum price for electric vehicles through that program, but as costs go down, we're certain that, at least in terms of that program, it's not going to have very significant detrimental equity impacts.
November 23rd, 2020 / 5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you for that. I trust that that will provide Mr. Jeneroux with a bit more for future questions.
My last question, I'm assuming, because my time is going very quickly—five minutes tends to go fast—would be for Mr. Bateman.
The primary selling point for many EVs is the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. We've heard that today. How can consumers be sure that greenhouse gas emissions are not just being pushed behind the scenes into power production?
I think perhaps Mr. Longfield's questions were similar to this. I'm thinking, for example, that China has dramatically increased the amount of coal-fired power plants it uses to produce electricity, and if they make a large push towards electric vehicles, the electricity being used will actually be producing more greenhouse gases. Could you speak to that?
5:20 p.m.
Interim President, WaterPower Canada
Absolutely, and thank you, Ms. Block, for the question. I'll be very brief.
There are two key components to this. Number one, there's electricity supply. Within Canada, to meet our Paris Agreement targets, I expect that our emissions will have to decrease by about 80% to 85%—below 2005 levels—by 2030. We definitely have the clean electricity supply coming online.
With regard to the embedded emissions in the vehicles, there's a growing number of studies that show that the life-cycle emissions that would account for emissions that are produced in China are still reduced when we drive them in Canada with Canadian electricity.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you. That was right at five minutes on the dot, very well planned.
We have Mr. Baker for five minutes, please.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you.
Thank you, Yvan, for giving me some time here.
Mr. Kazi, my questions are for you. I am a temporary on this committee. My normal committee is national security and intelligence, so when you brought up cybersecurity my ears perked up. We are actually doing a cyber study right now, so this is an interesting point because it will completely change how the manufacturing of vehicles is done.
My first question is in and around how prepared you think manufacturers actually are for dealing with cybersecurity? Do you think they are putting enough expertise into this? As the new technology evolves a lot of times those are start-up companies that partner maybe with larger companies, but they may not have the expertise or financial ability needed for these sorts of investments.
Can you elaborate on where you think the industry is or should be going?
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Siemens Canada Limited
Thank you so much for that question.
I think this is a real concern, because cybersecurity is something that is not static. It is always moving, so even if you are prepared today, it doesn't mean that you are prepared tomorrow.
To your point, there's a lot of work to be done, and I think we need mechanisms and standards to ensure the cyber standards are met. Some of the large companies around the world, such as Cisco or Airbus, etc., have defined a charter of trust, which is a self-imposed kind of regulation on themselves but also on their supply chain to adhere to certain standards, which will give us a bit of comfort on what the standards are. I believe that we would need that kind of a charter for electric vehicles, especially because it's not only about charging. It's also about commercial transactions, so this needs to be done.
From the Canadian perspective, I can tell you that we at Siemens are launching our cyber-defence centre in Atlantic Canada, with many other companies, together with the Government of Canada and supported by the Government of Canada. That provides managed services, which would be always scanning the different systems.
There are two ways. The one is inherent cybersecurity checks within the equipment, and I think there is a lot of work to be done. The other one is the scan of the overall system through a cyber-defence centre kind of element to make sure that nothing silly is going on around there.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you.
Do you think the private sector in your field has a full grasp of what the cybersecurity threats are at any given time here or around the world?
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Siemens Canada Limited
I think the answer would be.... I would say no. I mean, people know, but it's not 100%. No one can guarantee that we are 100% sure, I think. We have a grasp of about 80% or 90%, but as we say in cybersecurity, you are as strong as the weakest link.
There is work that needs to be done, but we know from different industries like the power generation industry, the grid industry, that you can secure your supply chain as well as your system. It's possible, but this effort needs to come in, because the systems are being developed.... We had a discussion around the interoperability of the different systems. At the moment, we do not have that standard, which we need to define. I think that would be an opportunity to make sure that it is cyber-safe.