Environment Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Based on the responses to my colleague Mr. Kram's questions regarding the economic analysis and consideration of the impacts of the carbon tax, is it fair to assume that despite being the department that designed and implemented the program, the tax—because you're the Department of Environment—there's nobody here who can answer the question as to what the expected or anticipated costs of hiking up the level of the carbon tax actually will amount to?

Is that fair? Am I correct that nobody here can answer how much that costs and how much the carbon tax is costing in terms of food costs?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I think we told you that there was a very limited impact of the carbon pricing on any inflation in this country. It's a negligible factor—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

It is a major program that costs billions of dollars—

[Jean-François Tremblay]

It doesn't cost billions of dollars—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

You mentioned that cabinet has access to a number of other departments in looking at information. Did any other departments...? I can think of agriculture, finance and perhaps trade looking at the competitiveness issue as it relates to our having a carbon tax versus our American counterpart or any other countries.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

It happens regularly between departments—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Has there been an analysis of any of that?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

John, would you comment?

[John Moffet]

Yes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Could you share it with us?

[John Moffet]

Yes. We have plenty of analysis on trade impacts, competitiveness impacts, affordability impacts.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

You can submit all of that to the committee.

[John Moffet]

Yes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. I will look forward to that.

Have you guys done outward looking as we get to $170 a tonne by 2030? Have there been analyses done further out that you could also share with our committee? What are the anticipated cost increases of food prices when $170 a tonne is the carbon tax per tonne?

[John Moffet]

I don't know, and I don't know that we have that analysis.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Do any other departments?

[John Moffet]

We'll have to look.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

If you could check, please submit anything to this committee that has been done as an analysis for when it reaches $170, and hopefully, on a year-by-year basis, what the impacts are in terms of food prices and any other analysis that has been done. That would be appreciated.

Switching lanes a bit here to the plastics ban being ruled unreasonable and unconstitutional, are you aware of some of the other impacts as they relate to the outcomes of that ban, particularly the implementation or use of paper straws or other plant-based straws, or in particular a study published in the journal Food Additives and Contaminants that examined more than 20 brands of plant-based straws—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry, but we have a point of order. Wait a moment, Mr. Leslie.

Go ahead.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Is the plastics ban pertinent to supplementary estimates (C)?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't know if it has an impact on legal costs the department might have to assume. Maybe we can get to the bottom of that.

Go ahead, Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I appreciate it. That was exactly where I was going, Mr. Chair.

Are you aware of the study that indicates that in fact, as a witness in our water study said, PFAS are a major problem? Many of these alternative straws have a high level of PFAS and therefore contaminate our environment.

Have you guys looked at any other alternatives so that when you make a decision such as a policy on straws or banning other things, as we have the upcoming plastics summit, has there been an analysis done from an economic standpoint of the alternatives, such as for plastic bags versus the types of polymers used in other bags?

Has that been done, and can you share it with our committee?

[John Moffet]

When we published the ban on single-use plastics, we also published, as we do with every regulation, a regulatory impact assessment statement, which included a review of the economic costs of replacing single-use plastics, including plastic straws.

Potentially regrettable substitutions, like a straw that includes PFAS, is a regular issue we address. When we take action on one substance, we try to ensure we're also looking at potential alternatives. The government has an equally comprehensive agenda on managing the use of and risks from PFAS, for example.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'd appreciate it if you'd be willing to share anything with our committee, beyond the gazetted information.

I'd like to cede the remainder of my time to Mr. Mazier.