Evidence of meeting #100 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was change.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
The rebate is $1,700, which means a difference of about $700 for families.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
I'm sorry. Can you just repeat that? What is the rebate in Alberta?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
On the finance department website, you will find a table that we can of course provide to the committee. The average cost of carbon pricing is $1056 per household. The annual rebate is $1779, for a net benefit of $723.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
What you have done there is you've just excluded all those secondary costs. You're not talking about the total costs of the carbon tax. The total cost of the carbon tax in Alberta is going to be $2,466. You just said, I think, that the rebate was $1,756. Which number is bigger? Is it $2,466 or $1,756?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
The most important figure is the average cost of the impacts of climate change. In Canada, it is $2 billion annually—
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
That $2 billion is more than all the amounts you mentioned.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
—are trying to pretend that the rebate covers the total costs of the carbon tax. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has found, has concluded, after studying all the impacts—the direct costs but also the secondary costs, as producers and shippers and retailers have to raise their prices—that it costs families.
I'll move on to Ontario. It will cost the average working family in Ontario $1,363. Can you tell me what the rebate will be for a family in Ontario?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
In his analysis, the Parliamentary Budget Officer himself admits that he did not take into account the impacts of climate change that we are all paying for, whether you like it or not, Mr. Scheer.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
That's not what the question was. It's just a simple question. What is the rebate for a family in Ontario?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I will forward the information from the finance department to the committee. Their website is public.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
You and all your Liberal colleagues were waving these cards around in the House just a couple of days ago. You were carrying them around, and then we started pointing out that the rebate is actually less than the costs, and suddenly those cards have all disappeared, and you're not waving them around quite as much as you used to.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I did not agree with the PBO's report last year, and I still disagree.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay, we need a break. It's like in wrestling: Everyone go to your corner.
I've stopped the clock. I don't know where we're at now. It is a chicken-and-egg thing. Does the question come first or the answer?
Go ahead, Mr. Scheer. Let's try to not all speak at the same time.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
The minister stated a falsehood a few moments ago when answering my colleague. He said that the Liberal government, under this Prime Minister, had never promised that the carbon tax wouldn't go up. That is false.
In 2019 your predecessor, Catherine McKenna, promised—she stated—that the carbon tax would not go up beyond $50 a tonne. Can you tell—
Liberal
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We're here to talk to the minister about the estimates. I am curious as to whether carbon pricing is in the estimates. Is this relevant?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Is it relevant? Carbon pricing is an important economic and environmental issue and it no doubt impacts government decisions that are reflected in the estimates. I think it would be good to give the minister a chance to answer something.
Conservative
Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK
On a point of order, I wasn't asking a question; I was stating a fact.
