Environment Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

There's really nothing for the minister to respond to unless he wants to reflect on why he stated a falsehood, but he doesn't need to do that right yet and take that out of my time.

I do have a question, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, because you're running out of time.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

I hope these points of order aren't coming out of my time.

Can you promise Canadians today that the carbon tax will not go up beyond $170 a tonne? Can you make that commitment?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As I pointed out earlier, it is not a tax, and the Supreme Court was very clear about that. It is a fee system.

Either you agree with the Supreme Court or you don't. I have often heard your party refer to Supreme Court decisions.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Whatever word you want to use, will you axe the price? Will it ever go up beyond $170 a tonne? Can you promise that it will not go higher than $170 a tonne?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Our commitment was to increase it to $170 per tonne by 2030—

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Sir, can you make that promise?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

—and we have not made any commitments for subsequent phases.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

You cannot commit that it won't go higher.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We have not made any commitment one way or the other.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It is Mr. Longfield's turn now.

You have the floor, Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and to the officials for being here. It's fantastic to see the team in person.

I want to go back to the estimates, particularly around the science investments and the transfer to the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and biophysical sciences.

I was at an event in my riding last week with Dr. Paul Hebert. He was awarded the Benjamin Franklin Medal for Earth and Environmental Science for his work on biodiversity. He is one of only four Canadians in 200 years to receive the medal. He's developed a system for tracking DNA whether it's in the air, in the water or in parts of DNA sequencing from animals.

I know, Minister, that you've been involved with the global biodiversity framework. In 2022 we hosted COP15, and I know you were involved with the international partners to halt and reverse biodiversity loss. Dr. Hebert is working on monitoring the biodiversity loss. In fact, he's looking at it as a life forecast, not a weather forecast, and he's developing a platform for that. Could you share with the committee how the government is working with the Kunming-Montreal global biodiversity framework?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you for the question.

COP15, which led to the adoption of the Kunming-Montreal global biodiversity framework, is referred to by many journalists, scientists and activists as “the Paris moment for nature”.

The first time the conference of nations committed to protecting at least 30% of lands and waters by 2030, 30% was not a number that came out of a hat: It was based on the equivalent of the IPCC research, but for biodiversity. Obviously it's not a ceiling; it's a floor. It's at least 30% of lands and waters.

When we came into power in 2015, Canada was not even protecting 1% of its oceans and coastlines. We're now at almost 15% and on our way to meeting our 2030 target of 30%. We're a little below 14% for terrestrial, and we've invested massively since 2021, with $4 billion for nature protection, including $2.3 billion over five years for Canada's enhanced nature legacy, under which we have signed an agreement with a number of provinces and territories, including Nova Scotia, Yukon and B.C.. We have made an historic announcement regarding our commitment to work together to achieve 30% by 2030, and we are working with a number of other jurisdictions on these bilateral agreements.

We are investing historic amounts, but it's not just about investment. We have to work with partners. I was talking with MP Chatel earlier about indigenous-led conservation, which is a cornerstore, but we also need to, and want to, work with our provincial and territorial colleagues on that.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

I was very interested in the transfer to NSERC and how Environment and Climate Change Canada is working with other departments. Dr. Hebert said that we can get DNA from our weather forecasting using existing equipment. Is that science going to Industry and Innovation or is it going to Environment and Climate Change?

It's about how departments interact and try to come together around science. I chair the science and research committee, and it's something near and dear to me. Could you comment on the science that's going on in the government departments and how they're working together with guidance from your folks?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I think J.F. would like to take this one, if you'll allow me.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Absolutely.

[Jean-François Tremblay, Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment]

We have departments that are really science-based departments. Environment is one of them. There are committees among the departments that are really important and significant from a science perspective.

We of course share a common agenda. Our scientists work together. We try to encourage them more and more to do that, even sometimes in sharing the same labs in the same place so that the ideas can come together and we can avoid duplication. That's constantly what we're trying to achieve.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Well, I'll be in touch. Guelph has the largest DNA data repository in the world now. There is a lab in India that's being named after Dr. Hebert for his pioneering work. I'm trying to find room for him to try to join the conversation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's very interesting.

I want to thank the minister for making himself available and exchanging thoughts with us.

We'll take a very short break. We'll continue with the ministry representatives at the table to answer questions.

Thank you for your time, minister.

We will take a short break now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Order.

We will begin right away so we can finish on time.

We will have two rounds of questions.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today.

I'll start with Deputy Minister Tremblay.

Just before Christmas, the Regina food bank released a report that said one in four children in Regina was food insecure. That's a polite way of saying that they don't have enough to eat. Prior to now and prior to last Christmas, were you aware that one in four children in Regina was food insecure?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I'm not sure I had the numbers for Regina. I spent a lot of time on the issues of the food banks when I was the deputy minister of ESDC, because that was part of the mandate. Like any Canadian, I'm quite concerned by this issue of affordability. I'm quite pleased to see that inflation is going down a bit. I hope it's going to continue that way.

Yes, I was aware of that. More and more, food banks are asking.... They are actually saying that they have needs that are higher than what they have experienced over the last few years, for sure.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I should have been clearer. I didn't necessarily mean you personally, off of the top of your head, but your department: Do you keep track of rising food bank use in different provinces or different metropolitan areas?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I don't think the department is necessarily the one responsible to track those things. I would like them to track the indicators on the environment, which is their core responsibility, but they're aware and take it into consideration, of course. The rest of the departments do that too, on any measures we're taking, and the impacts on the rest of the population.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

This April 1, we're going to see a 23% increase in the carbon tax. Does the department have any modelling that would tell us how big an increase in food bank use will result from a 23% increase in the carbon tax?