Environment Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I just can't believe—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

This may come as a shock to you, but I know people who own cars.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That wasn't a question. It was a statement—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

This may sound incredible, but I know people who own cars, and I speak with them on a regular.... I have family members—brothers and sisters—who own cars, and I speak with them on a regular basis, believe it or not. I know this sounds surprising, but it's true, and you can verify that information.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Minister, you stated, and I quote, “The government does not measure the annual amount of emissions that are directly reduced by federal carbon pricing.” Why are you increasing the carbon tax if you don't measure the direct results?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

The question was about the movement of individuals in Canada, including cabinet ministers.

As you know, or you should know, there is an annual document that is published by the Government of Canada, the greenhouse gas inventory, which is a detailed document that measures the emissions by sector, by province. It's been going on for I don't know how many years—probably more than 20 years now—and it's usually published around April. There was one last year. There will be another inventory this year. I'd be happy for the department to—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Minister, I asked you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we have to stop there.

Mrs. Chatel, the floor is yours.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being here with us. I would also like to thank your fine team.

I, too, am very proud of the work that all of you do.

I wanted to go back to what you said in your opening remarks. You were talking about the key role indigenous peoples are playing to help reach Canada's biodiversity goals and targets, for example. I know, because we talked about it. We worked with your team.

You've produced concrete results. You've allocated budgets to projects. Outaouais may be one of the first regions in Canada to have an action plan to achieve the targets. This plan will be led by the Anishinabe community of Kitigan Zibi. That's because of you. It's because of the work you're doing and the priority you're putting on it. As the saying goes, you walk the talk. Thank you.

I invite you to tell that story in other regions that would like to have a plan like that. What will the programs you've implemented with indigenous peoples actually do for Canada?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We've put in place a series of programs. I'm thinking in particular of the indigenous guardians program. That said, there are also indigenous-led conservation programs. Several hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars have been invested in conservation.

Last week we signed an agreement with the Nunatsiavut government to protect the marine conservation area right next to Torngat Mountains National Park, so the northeast tip of Labrador. Just before the holidays, we signed an agreement with the Government of the Northwest Territories and the indigenous governments of the Northwest Territories. At the end of the day, there will be a million square kilometres of new protected areas. That's four times the size of Great Britain. We have a number of projects. The vast majority of conservation projects are led by indigenous people.

Mrs. Chatel, I congratulate you because you were very involved in the project with Kitigan Zibi. We've been there to support that on our side.

Partnership with indigenous peoples is essential if we want to achieve our nature conservation goals, but also to fight climate change.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

In your opening remarks, you talked about the Canada Water Agency and what it can do for farmers. I have a number of farmers in my riding. In fact, last week, I toured a number of farms.

You're right, farmers are concerned about climate change. It greatly increases their stress levels. There's also the issue of water levels. You were talking earlier about livestock. How can the Canada Water Agency concretely support our farmers in the face of this new situation caused by climate change?

As you said, 2024 may be the hottest year ever. We know that farmers are on the front lines of climate change.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Yes, there have been many studies.

I was in Nova Scotia last week and met with some farmers. Hurricane Fiona, which destroyed fields for cattle and dairy farms, pastures that were used to produce food, resulted in damages of hundreds of thousands of dollars per farm. That is just one catastrophe, not to mention the flooded fields. Nova Scotia has had the worst flooding in its history and the worst forest fires.

Climate change has many effects, and they differ widely from one part of the country to the other. In some places, there is not enough water, such as in the Prairies, with the long-standing drought. The east fared a bit better. The situation in British Columbia is very problematic. The entire winegrowing industry was hard hit by climate change once again this year. The effects of climate change on the agriculture sector are getting worse every year.

And yet the Conservative Party's response is to create more pollution and to make it free, to have more climate change and effects of climate change, as well as eliminating assistance programs for agriculture. I think that response lacks judgment.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I would also like to confirm something about dairy farms so that Canadians clearly understand the consequences of climate change. If there is not enough food for the cows because of dry pastures, for instance, there are very clear repercussions, and not just for one season. Those cows cannot produce milk or give birth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have to stop there, Ms. Chatel.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have a quick question for you, minister, which should be easy to answer.

When Bill S‑5 finally received royal assent last year, the government said it was planning to update the toxic substances management policy.

Where are we at with that?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I do not have that information with me.

Mr. Moffet, do you have the information on hand?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Since he has the information, I will ask him in the second hour.

Minister, I would like to talk about the emissions cap, a promise made in 2021, as we know. Yet it appears that we will essentially have nothing until 2030. Multinationals will be granted emissions rights, the same companies that racked up record profits in 2022.

The minister's natural allies have made their position known. According to the David Suzuki Foundation, “the framework allows industry to bypass real emissions reduction.” According to Équiterre, “the framework lacks ambition and rigour. There are too many loopholes.” According to Greenpeace, “This isn't yet the ambitious emissions cap we need to set us on a path to the full … phase-out of fossil fuels.”

I would like to ask you something. Your colleague, the Minister of Employment and Workforce Development, pointed out that his meetings with lobbyists from the Pathways Alliance were valuable for drafting the details of the cap.

Did you meet with those lobbyists? Were they as important to you as they were to the Minister of Employment and Workforce Development?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

The Minister of Employment and Workforce Development was not involved in developing the framework, except for the decision made in cabinet; it was the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change who was responsible for that. So I am not sure what you are referring to.

I do not have the press releases from Équiterre or the David Suzuki Foundation in front of me, but I think if you look at the beginning of each of those press releases, you will see that they welcomed the tabling of the regulatory framework for capping greenhouse gas emissions. As with other environmental groups in general, they would like to see more. I know how it is because I was part of environmental groups for 25 years. If you have them with you, you could share them—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have some excerpts of the press releases. In the Greenpeace one, the initial remarks are not positive. Greenpeace stated that it was not really the emissions cap—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

You have excerpts. Greenpeace Canada's response was not the same as that of Greenpeace Québec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have to agree that the time is up.

Ms. Collins has the floor now.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to ask the minister about forestry.

You mentioned the $35 million to respond to forest fires. Do you have a sense of how much forest fires and wildfires are costing Canadians right now?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I don't think we have the cost yet. I think this is still being costed out. We would be happy to provide that information to the committee when it's available.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I would love to see the government's analysis.

In 2023, 18.5 million hectares of forest burned in wildfires across Canada. That is astronomical and unprecedented, more than double the area in the last worst wildfire season.

Without counting the health costs and the costs of damages on private property, there was a report saying that it cost about a billion dollars. While $35 million sounds like a lot, it may not be enough to tackle this huge issue that Canadians are facing. People are being evacuated from their homes. We are seeing kids choking on smoke.

One of the proposals that we put forward is a national firefighting force, a force that could respond to wildfires. We know that fighting forest fires is a provincial responsibility, but crews get quickly overwhelmed when we have unprecedented fires, and we are going to see more and more unprecedented wildfire seasons. They could also work year-round thinning forests and doing the kind of management that will hopefully prevent some of the catastrophic impacts.

I'm curious about where your government is on this proposal.