Environment Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Terrence Keeley]

I applaud every member of this committee and all Canadians who are trying to do their part to create a greener world. As I tried to state in my opening remarks, I feel it's fairly logical. We should continue to expect that temperatures are going higher. When it comes to prioritizing public assets and public expenditures, the approach of adaptation would be far better than mitigation.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

In your view, how should we rank the importance of measuring the outcomes and results of our policies? Would an ESG mandate aid the improvement of environmental outcome results in any way?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer very briefly, please. You have 10 seconds.

[Terrence Keeley]

Do I have time or not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 10 seconds. It's basically yes or no.

[Terrence Keeley]

The answer is no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Longfield, you have four minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one brief question. I'll turn the rest of my time over to Mr. Turnbull.

My question is for Mr. Senécal.

You piqued my interest when you talked about electricity and getting to a cleaner grid. A few summers ago, a group of us visited the nuclear facility at Bruce Power. We were talking about green bonds at the time and the opportunity to have nuclear included in Canada's green bond policy. Since November 21, 2023, certain nuclear energy expenditures have been eligible under the green bond program.

Knowing how important it is to attract international investment into high capital expenditure areas such as nuclear, could you comment on whether we've gone far enough? Is this heading in the right direction?

[Simon Senécal]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, nuclear has been part of the climate bonds taxonomy since 2018, from what I remember. It is, as you all know, a controversial topic. Still, in terms of low-carbon solutions to produce electricity, it is up there. It is the lowest type of electricity production.

Yes, some issuers in Canada have revised their green bond framework lately. It is one of the solutions to live in a greener, low-carbon world.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

I think it's the change we've seen in terms of being able to get medical isotopes, as another example. Bruce Power said that was the missing piece they needed to see us working on.

[Simon Senécal]

I'm sorry. I missed it. What did they add?

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm taking up too much time. I will go over to Mr. Turnbull.

Thank you for your answer.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks to my colleague Mr. Longfield.

Ms. Brandon-Jepp and Mr. Detchou, I want to ask you this: The Canadian Chamber of Commerce has a working group on sustainable finance, as I understand it. I've met with them quite a number of times, which is great. I know you've been active advocating for green taxonomy and mandatory climate-related disclosures.

Could you describe why those are so important as enabling conditions to attract additional investment and mobilize capital to fight climate change?

[Jessica Brandon-Jepp]

Thank you for the question, and thank you for taking the time to meet with the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and members of our green and transition finance council.

The Canadian chamber believes we require an inclusive, made-in-Canada framework that addresses the unique opportunities and challenges facing Canada in its transition and supports Canadians in that transition. Really, it's about creating a full suite of tools that businesses and investors can feel confident in and rely on as they make investment decisions.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

My understanding is that credibility and certainty within the market are the enabling conditions for capital to flow. Do you see these two tools...? There's taxonomy, which is a classification system for green and transition products, and disclosure information, which I think truly arms investors with decision-useful data.

Can you speak to just how important those tools are in increasing credibility and transparency in the market?

[Jessica Brandon-Jepp]

Certainly, I think businesses have been advocating for these tools for quite some time, and so has SFAC. In order to increase Canada's productivity and grow our economy, these are really essential to attracting investors. We know we—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. I apologize for interrupting you, but we have a tight schedule today.

Ms. Pauzé, please go ahead for two minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you. I'll get straight to the point.

I'm going to begin with the Canadian Chamber of Commerce representatives.

The recently published 2024 InfluenceMap report says on page 32 that the Canadian Chamber of Commerce is promoting high carbon intensity fuel sources like Canada's oil sands. It mentions Michigan's line 5 pipeline as an example. It also says that in 2022, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce was against a ceiling on emissions in this sector.

And yet in your opening address, you said that you acknowledged the crucial importance of combatting climate change.

What's more crucially important: combatting climate change or promoting Canada's oil interests?

[Bryan Detchou]

Thank you very much for your question, Ms. Pauzé. If it's all right with you, I'm going to answer in English because I'm more familiar with certain terms in English.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce and many of its members certainly agree that we have a strong role to play in reducing our emissions. That has always been a focus of many of our members, but one thing we also need to take into consideration is Canada's role in the world and our ability to support one of our strongest-performing sectors. I'm not just focusing on the sector that you mentioned, but also the critical minerals that we have in this country and our ability to help support other nations as they also try to decarbonize their—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Sorry for interrupting, but I only have two minutes.

You don't appear to see a connection between climate change and fossil fuel extraction.

My question could be for you or for the representatives of the Insurance Bureau of Canada. It's about certain boards of directors that have been infiltrated or influenced by fossil fuel industry representatives. Shouldn't something be done about that?

The issue of taxonomy came up, and you talked about it, as did the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. But if we want to come up with a proper taxonomy, and the oil company representatives are still there, it's not going to happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we don't have time for an answer, but the question is pretty clear.

It's over to Ms. Collins now.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Again, it's not surprising to me that the Conservatives have spent most of their time asking questions about divestment of someone who is maligning the divestment movement. Young people are using so many tools, whether they are divestment, engagement or activism, and they're trying to use whatever tools they can right now in the face of a climate crisis.

What's also not surprising is the climate neo-denialism. That we don't have to be that ambitious is aligned with folks who don't fully support a woman's right to choose. It's also telling, to me, that the Conservative leader has refused to say whether he would scrap the industrial carbon price.

My question is for Ms. Brandon-Jepp. The federal backstop when it comes to the industrial carbon price is one of the most critical policies that we have. Industrial carbon pricing does the bulk of our emissions reduction. The Pathways Alliance's new head has actually called on the Conservative leader to state his position on the industrial carbon price and whether he'd keep it.

It's wild to me that we're in a position where oil and gas leaders are more climate-friendly than the leader of a political party in Canada. That's wild.

I'm curious to hear your perspective about creating certainty. What does that kind of uncertainty do?

[Jessica Brandon-Jepp]

I think Canada should increase overall net-zero funding and do more to de-risk and address barriers to private sector investment.

We hear from our members all of the time that they very much appreciate partnerships with government and private sector funders to enhance, innovate and find bleeding-edge solutions to our brightest climate challenges.

I think this is really where—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Particularly on the industrial carbon pricing question, is greater certainty better for...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 15 seconds, please.