Evidence of meeting #111 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was province.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here.
Both the federal and provincial governments have a responsibility to ensure that first nations communities, Inuit communities and Métis communities have access to clean drinking water. I would like to hear from both of you, maybe starting with Mr. Khan, what your government is doing, what the landscape is when it comes to access to clean drinking water, what communities might not have access to clean drinking water and what the government is doing to ensure that those communities get access.
Director, Water Resources Management Division, Department of Environment and Climate Change, Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
The provision of clean and safe drinking water—and our honourable member also asked this question earlier—requires a multibarrier approach. One-size-fits-all does not work. You have to have the concept of multibarrier. This was one of the outcomes of that national committee that was created 20 years ago. I was one of the co-chairs of that committee. We promoted the implementation of a multibarrier concept all across the country for all public water supplies, and that has been embraced and implemented.
You have multiple barriers, and if one barrier fails, there are other barriers to protect the safety of drinking water. In our province, we have so far rolled out two clean, safe and secure drinking water action plans. Those action plans have certain targets, certain indicators. We have produced an annual report on how we are performing and making progress.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Can you share a little bit about the kind of trajectory and what kind of progress you have made?
Director, Water Resources Management Division, Department of Environment and Climate Change, Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
Yes. We have reduced the number of boil-water advisories from 350 to 170. That is substantial progress. We have increased the number of trained operators from 80 to 350, and we are proud of that. We have increased the number of water treatment plants from five to 25, so we have made progress in each and every area.
The most important thing we have done is to put all drinking water quality data in the public domain. Any member of the public, anywhere in the country, can go to our web page, select the particular community, see the quality of drinking water in that particular community and see if their community on a boil-water advisory.
I think that during last 20 to 25 years, we have made substantial progress, but still there is lots of work to be done, especially in the small rural communities and the northern communities. We maintain a very good working relationship with our indigenous communities. We offer all those programs to those communities that we offer to non-indigenous communities.
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
Thank you.
The landscape in P.E.I. is.... There are not very large indigenous communities, so they're very small and its a federal jurisdiction, as you know. However, because we're small, we also collaborate with those communities whenever they want. If they need expertise from our department, we just talk and collaborate as need be.
What we do to protect them individually, I don't know that it's focused on any one group, but as a whole, for the province, the Water Act, as I said, is just relatively new. That's going to give us more powers to ensure that our drinking water is clean for every resident.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I don't know much about the landscape in P.E.I. Are there boil-water advisories? Do the Mi'kmaq people in P.E.I. have access to clean drinking water across Prince Edward Island?
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
I would say the whole province has good drinking water and good access to it. Are there boil-water advisories? There are some but not that many. We don't rely on surface water, so it's all groundwater fed. Most of the time.... There would have to be a problem with the system in order to have a boil-water advisory.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I guess maybe that leads into my next question about emergency management and disaster response. Both of you spoke a little bit about the impacts of climate change and the threats that communities face.
Can you tell us what you want to see from the federal government when it comes to emergency response, threats to our watersheds due to climate change and how the federal government could better support provinces and municipalities when it comes to these issues?
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
Okay. I will go first.
I think in our position, as I already mentioned, with the infrastructure we have for waste-water and for drinking water systems, more funding to upgrade those and to make them newer would be the main thing.
I forget the first part of your question. I'm sorry.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Really, it's just about what you want from the federal government when it comes to ensuring that our communities are climate-resilient. What response do you want from the federal government when there are these kinds of climate-related natural disasters, whether that's hurricanes, wildfires, drought or flooding?
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
Yes. We certainly know hurricanes after Fiona. That was a big wake-up call for the province.
I think it still comes back to infrastructure for us. We have a climate change section that is really aggressive on the adaptation side, and we have been working very hard to make sure that we adapt to climate change. Part of that is the infrastructure. Part of that is emergency programs and that sort of thing. Additional funding, additional research and expertise....
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We've taken note of your infrastructure requirements.
We are now moving on to the second round of questions, but I'm going to reduce the amount of time allowed for questions and answers; it will be four minutes and two minutes. We have another hour left following the current discussion with witnesses.
Mr. Leslie, go ahead for four minutes.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to start with you, Mr. Ledgerwood, regarding some comments you made earlier. You mentioned that the groundwater is the source of water and that you have good drinking water in the province, but you seemed to allude to a concern over some sort of contamination by crop protection products used by farmers. You suggested that the PMRA should perhaps consider delineating between the rest of the country and P.E.I. users of products that are marked and used properly on label.
I just want to clarify. Do you think that P.E.I. farmers, whether they be grain farmers, who I think are in town today to advocate for availability of tools, or whether they be potato farmers, should have reduced access to crop protection products that PMRA approves?
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
Definitely not. Agriculture industry is critical to our province, like I said before. All I'm saying is that I want to make sure that the products they are using are unique and properly registered for our province. That's all. I'm not saying we should reduce or cut anything back. It's more about having the right products for the right circumstances.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I trust that farmers are choosing that correctly.
Going back to the Canada water agency, thus far, it seems like the Canada water agency might be everything to everybody all at the same time, and I'm very skeptical that this is going to be the case.
Mr. Khan, you mentioned water quantity as one of the things. That seems novel to me. We've seen a lot about quality, monitoring and data collection and standardization, which all sound lovely, but very little on water quantity and flows, which is certainly within provincial jurisdiction for the most part. I'm curious.
From your several conference calls and your lack of calls, what do you actually think the Canada water agency, if put out today, is going to be?
Director, Water Resources Management Division, Department of Environment and Climate Change, Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
I think the Canada water agency can play a very important role in rolling out national policy guidance in various areas. That could be water quantity monitoring, water quality monitoring, flood risk mapping or other areas. They can carry multiple heads. They can be a one-stop shop for provinces. They can provide national policy guidance on various issues. They can coordinate these various federal-provincial cost-share and work-share programs. I think they can play the role of a centralized agency, a consolidated water agency, for the various water-related functions within the federal government.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I hope that ends up being something like what it might end up being.
I'll move back to Mr. Ledgerwood.
Smaller municipalities often don't have the capacity or the funding to pay for a lot of the environmental studies that lead to core infrastructure projects or water management projects. I assume smaller municipalities...and you mentioned that sometimes at the local governance level within P.E.I.
In my riding, we have a municipality that paid thousands of dollars for a study to look at a climate adaptation project that would mitigate overland flooding, which is a high likelihood, and it was denied without really any understanding. Now they have some cold feet about further applications because these small municipalities have to pay thousands and tens of thousands of dollars to get that initial application in for a project approval. I'm curious as to whether or not you believe overall there's adequate support and, how, as a smaller province with smaller municipalities, you can try to help guide them through this difficult process.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We have about 15 seconds, but then you can always answer the question at another opportunity.
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
Yes, it is a challenge. We've been trying to work with some of that. You talked about inland flooding, and we just created a map for all of P.E.I. for inland flooding, so some of that work hopefully can help municipalities in their work. However, yes, it is a challenge and additional funding could help municipalities in that sort of thing.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Canada water agency is really looking at three main objectives. It touched on several points you raised, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to tell the committee what they should be prioritizing that would be most helpful for provinces in managing water.
The one we talked about—Mr. Khan, you referred to it—is that they're looking at being more of a one-stop shop because there are several departments dealing with water. They want to regroup to have a whole-of-government approach. They wanted to make it easier for decision-makers and Canadians to find federal resources on fresh water.
The second category is more collaboration with provinces and territories, with the U.S. as well and with indigenous.
The third one is really about science and data. They wanted to leverage freshwater science and data; improve the program; report regularly all across Canada with the quality, quantity, availability and use of water in Canada; and develop a national freshwater data strategy that would enhance the use of data and the quality of data, which they want to do with all key partners.
In your mind, where would be the best use of the resources of the Canada water agency in those broad categories?
Director, Water Resources Management Division, Department of Environment and Climate Change, Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
I think the Canada water agency should focus in those areas where provinces are not working, because provinces have very strong expertise in water management. They are dealing with floods, dam safety, and clean and safe water.
The Canada water agency can play the role of an overarching agency to act as a technical resource for the provinces on research and development and innovation, and the development of tools that we can use to transform and convert the data we are collecting into information and knowledge that are of interest to Canadians and that Canadians need on a day-to-day basis. They can be a driving force or central clearing house for all those types of work.
Acting Manager, Water and Air Monitoring, Department of Environment, Energy and Climate Action, Government of Prince Edward Island
I would agree with Haseen. It's the scientific knowledge that could be of very great benefit to smaller jurisdictions. That would be one thing.
It would be good for collaboration on policies at a national level, which is bigger than at the provincial level. I think those are the two main parts that I see.