Environment Committee on June 4th, 2024

[Haseen Khan]

If I recall correctly, the thrust of those discussions was on being a water manager involved in day-to-day water management issues in your jurisdiction. What is your experience in your dealings with various federal agencies? What is your opinion on how water should be governed on a long-term basis in Canada to ensure socio-economic benefit for the public as well as public safety?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. We'll have to stop there.

Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. This is a very interesting conversation on how we manage water resources across the country.

You mentioned that climate change has a huge impact on water and water management, and that how we manage our water also has an impact on climate change. It goes both ways. One of the areas I want to explore is how climate change is not within one province—whether it's P.E.I., Newfoundland or any other. We know it's national and global.

How do you see this water agency working with the provinces to discuss some of these larger issues in terms of how we work on climate change and water management from wetlands to the individual watershed areas? How can we bring that together to try to ensure the effects of water management also help us in our fight against climate change?

[Haseen Khan]

Thank you very much.

It's a very interesting and relevant question. I think there are a number of aspects.

The first is that consolidating the fragmented governance of water within the federal government under one agency, the Canada water agency, would be a very positive step. Then provinces would have a one-stop shop. They'd know where to go. They would bring all their issues and concerns to that particular agency, rather than to four or five departments.

Another aspect is that the federal government administers a number of cost-share and work-share agreements with provinces and territories, but these are within different departments. If all of that can be consolidated in one shop, I think it will lead to efficiency. It will avoid duplication. I'm sure it will lead to better long-term governance of water for the benefit of Canadians.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Ledgerwood, do you have anything to add?

[Sean Ledgerwood]

That's a great response, Haseen. I agree with that.

As I said, we're a smaller jurisdiction, so we talk among departments very quickly. We have a very good net-zero program in our department to fight climate change.

I think Haseen is right. If we can understand where to go and how that's going to relate back, it makes it a lot easier for us. The federal government is very big compared with the P.E.I. government, so it's very hard to navigate that sometimes. Making that easier for provinces, I think, is a good idea.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You see the Canada water agency as increasing efficiency and avoiding duplication, in fact, for the provinces that are going to be working with it.

There was another thing you mentioned, Mr. Ledgerwood, earlier. You were talking about PFAS, for example, contamination, fertilizers, pesticides and the impact of these things on water safety and water quality.

How do you think the Canada water agency can play a role in ensuring some of the smaller provinces have the same research and resources as others do?

[Sean Ledgerwood]

Thank you for the great comment and the great question. Yes, that's very important to us.

As I said before, we're a hundred per cent reliant on our groundwater, so it is of utmost importance for us to keep that clean and free from contamination. When we get into issues—you mentioned PFAS and emerging chemicals—that's where our knowledge can be greatly enhanced with an organization that has the backing behind it, the strong research that the federal government quite often does, and with the knowledge of health limits and all that sort of thing coming together.

That expertise can be a great help for a province like ours, where we may not have that direct knowledge of something new.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Earlier, we had the Water Security Agency from Saskatchewan here, and we were talking about a number of issues. One of the things, I think, which I read about, was that on the Lake Diefenbaker dam reservoir expansion, some indigenous leaders felt that the federal government should have a role in water management, because, of course, indigenous affairs are a federal responsibility.

They're so impacted, especially as we were talking about, Mr. Khan, in the northern part of Labrador, for example, and in other areas.

How do you think the Canada water agency will help in the reconciliation and co-operation between the indigenous rights and what they're looking for with regard to water management and some of the provincial and territorial issues?

[Haseen Khan]

Thank you very much.

I think we have to take a step backward.

Historically, the federal government has played a strong leadership role in facilitating the monitoring and reporting of water in the country. Providing a centralized repository for all water-related data that is being collected all across the country and using that data to develop policies and guidelines for the governance of water—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

[Haseen Khan]

—I think are the areas where the Canada water agency can play a very important role.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll stop now.

Thank you, Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Pauzé, the floor is yours.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here with us today.

I understand that the Canada Water Agency is an organization that might be important to your respective provinces, insofar as there is no duplication with what already exists in your province.

Are there any major freshwater management problems in Canada, other than the federal government's absence of, or inadequate, coordination?

[Sean Ledgerwood]

Go ahead.

[Haseen Khan]

I think one of the areas where we have seen issues and gaps with climate change is in the gaps in our monitoring network—that is, the water quantity monitoring network, the water quality monitoring network, the groundwater monitoring network and the climate monitoring network, especially in northern areas, where the climate change impact is more pronounced. That is where I think the federal government can play a very important role to fill in those gaps under various ongoing cost-share and work-share programs.

Another important role the federal government can play is to provide national guidance on how the data that we are collecting can be converted into information, into knowledge products, that would be of interest and benefit to common Canadians.

I will give you an example. In 2000, as a part of our work, the federal government and all provincial and territorial jurisdictions, under the umbrella of the CCME, the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, developed a tool that is a communication tool on the water quality index—that is, how this water quality data can be communicated to the public.

The public is not concerned about that data. Here is what they want to know: Is my river good for swimming? Is my river good for fishing? Is this water good for drinking? If we can provide that type of information to Canadians, I think we will be doing great justice to ourselves and to our mandate.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Ledgerwood, would you like to add anything?

[Sean Ledgerwood]

Just to follow up on Haseen's comments, with P.E.I., I've mentioned a little bit about pesticides. There's a large use of pesticides in P.E.I., and one of the things that we'd like to see is, when the pesticides are registered by PMRA, to really look at the unique situation P.E.I. has. When they register products, it's not always a one-size-fits-all. P.E.I. is very dependent on the groundwater and has different types of soils. It's very unique. That's one thing I'd like to see moved a little bit more to a more specific basis, based on the type of environment we have.

I would agree with most of Haseen's comments. Just to follow up, we've been trying with our water registry to do exactly what Haseen was asking, to create data in a form people can understand. Just raw lines and lines of data doesn't really mean anything to most people, but when you put it in an indicator or that sort of thing, it can be very useful to the public.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

So what you're saying is that the sharing and exchange of data gathered by the provinces and the government are anything but optimal, in spite of the quality and quantity of data.

[Sean Ledgerwood]

Could you expand on that a touch? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

And I understand from your answer to my first question that the federal government is not sending you enough data, or at least not sending it quickly enough. So there's not enough data sharing.

I have another question, for both of you.

In your respective provinces, what water infrastructure problems are of the greatest concern at the moment?

[Sean Ledgerwood]

For us, it's aging infrastructure with waste-water and drinking water facilities. There are a lot of facilities out there that are aging, and we need more funding to get them up to date, including for climate change. As you build new facilities and infrastructure, climate change has to be part of it. A lot of our infrastructure is aging, as I said, so that would be an opportunity for a lot more funding to get those up to the level of newer facilities, I guess.

[Haseen Khan]

To your first question on the exchange of data. I think the data is there, and we have a very good system whereby data is collected on a real-time basis and shared on a real-time basis, so that's a very positive step and improvement. As I mentioned earlier, our challenge is that there are gaps in certain parts of the country, especially in northern areas, and those gaps need to be addressed. Wherever we have a monitoring network, they are working excellently and providing information.