Environment Committee on June 4th, 2024

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Is that also the case for you, Mr. Jaques?

[Shawn Jaques]

I would have to follow up as well, because that was 20 years ago. I wasn't there.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

So we don't know if there was opposition to the introduction of regulations.

Many people have come to meet us here at the committee. There have been citizens, researchers, non-researchers. We've been told about invasive species and watersheds.

Is citizen participation really effective in your provinces? I'm asking you because people have been getting genuinely engaged in Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer very briefly, please. You have high levels of citizen consultation.

[Fin Donnelly]

One hundred per cent.

I think communities need to be engaged, like municipalities working with nations and industry. If they don't have a voice at the table for critical decision-making, you're going to hear about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To follow up on what we were talking about regarding the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, can you tell us a little more about the B.C.-First Nations Water Table, what the B.C. government is doing and what we could learn at the federal level from this model?

[Fin Donnelly]

Absolutely. Thank you for that question.

I think that was critical to where we have gotten to. We started over two years ago with a consultation and a commitment to work with nations. We produced a “what we heard” document. We produced an intentions paper. These reflect the consultations we've had—over 2,000 consultations with nations and many others—including a round table with the premier in September, and then a follow-up round table just recently.

For us in British Columbia, it is critical that we engage with nations. As a reflection of this, we created a B.C.-First Nations Water Table to look at codeveloping the strategy, which is where we're at right now. We're looking to put that strategy out. We're hearing from all sectors. That is going to be our challenge—engaging all sectors in that strategy, so they see themselves in it. Again, the water table has been critical for providing a leadership role there.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

You also have a B.C. freshwater initiative, which has a goal of having all freshwater ecosystems in B.C. be in good health by 2030. Can you talk a bit about the progress on that?

[Fin Donnelly]

I think I'm going to hand that one on progress over to James.

[James Mack]

First off, on fresh water, as the parliamentary secretary announced, our approach has been to work with first nations and make things community-led. We have been driving that work through a series of investments.

The first one was called the healthy watersheds initiative, which was a job creation program that we did during a strong B.C. pandemic response. It had a benefit of being a high job creator. A lot of the people who participated chose careers in restoration, and it had an added benefit of healthier watersheds in B.C., so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we have to stop there, but if you have any comments you want to give the committee in writing to complete your response, that would be appreciated.

Mr. Mazier, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming out this afternoon.

My questions are for the Water Security Agency. You mentioned that maintaining provincial authority over water management is a key priority for Saskatchewan. Can you expand on this and why it's important to your province?

[Shawn Jaques]

Thank you for the question. I think it's very much along the lines of what I mentioned earlier. We have those relationships with the communities, the industry and the stakeholders in our province. As I said earlier, we're the agency that regulates all aspects of water: drinking water, waste water and licensing. I believe it's important that our agency and our province maintain jurisdiction over that right. I don't see a need to duplicate those services that we're already providing.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thanks.

My next question is about duplication. I've been hearing lots from many witnesses here about the potential that duplication has. We've seen lots of duplication of other water acts and other water legislation. I'm from Manitoba. I live at the bottom of a watershed, so thank you very much, Saskatchewan, for your water. We've been quite frustrated many times in Manitoba, but 2011 was kind of an eye-opening experience for us.

It was interesting listening to the governments at that time. They were saying they should have done something after the 2008 flood, and meanwhile, three years later, in that year, they actually might not have flooded out. It was terrible down there. What it came down to was a mismanagement of the government legislation.

Out of all this talk, out of all the studies and all this stuff, is there any advice you can give this committee when we're writing up these reports? What needs to be done to make sure that these good thoughts and good intentions are actually followed? We can talk about consultations, all the good intentions and that we need to have communities there, but far too often they're not listened to and they're not acted on. If we simply followed the regulations, things would be a lot better. I don't know if you have any advice on that.

[David Cooper]

Thank you. It's a great question. The one thing that I've noticed with water management is that it can, at times, be reactive to the scenario of the day. When you're in a period of drought, the focus can be looking towards increasing storage and that sort of thing—not that it shouldn't; it should. In terms of handling those events that occurred in 2011 and others, I agree. I think we do need to work with our communities, our neighbours and our neighbouring provinces in creating proactive opportunities to mitigate those things.

I know from talking to our folks who worked through those floods that they left a mark. They really did. I think those concerns remain. I don't know if I have a great answer to the question other than to say I think it's certainly noted. Those are things that, through our infrastructure group, we are looking at opportunities to better manage our water all the time. As Shawn mentioned, we do look at operating our structures in a way that provides the best benefit. In certain years, it is flood mitigation. Right now, we're more focused on storage.

I don't know, Shawn, if you have anything to add to this, but Lake Diefenbaker and the Gardiner Dam is the largest water management structure that we have. We recently reviewed our operating plan looking at whether we are doing this to the best of our ability. We are doing things, but I think the point is well taken. There's certainly more to do in that category.

[Shawn Jaques]

I would just add that I think it's that constant communication and making sure we're working with our neighbours. I know we have a good working relationship with our two neighbouring provinces. We have a memorandum of understanding with Manitoba on water management issues. We work closely with the Government of Alberta on issues as well. As well, there are the international river systems and watersheds. I think it's also important to make sure that we have that information sharing and that we're working together as jurisdictions.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

For the water agency, how much have you had? From my understanding, you really still don't have a clear sense of the direction it's headed. Is that correct? I know we and Mr. Donnelly have talked about the funding, as have you guys. It always seems like we have these partnerships, so if the province brings some and the feds bring some, then we have a project. We might have some private stuff going on too, but therein lies the problem. I think it's too much like the old system.

I would implore all of you to share any words of advice you have for this committee and for this study. If we're going to develop a water agency and spend a pile of numbers on just coordinating a bunch of people and, if there's some legislation that needs to be looked at, especially when it comes down to interjurisdictional and national boundaries, please table them with our committee so we can get them in the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please do that.

I think what you're talking about is the revision of the Canada Water Act.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Whatever it takes....

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll see.

Mr. Longfield, you have five minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I really enjoy your musings. Sometimes those little points are key to our study, so thanks for putting your two cents into the discussion as well, Chair.

Mr. Donnelly, it's really good to see you back in Ottawa. Congratulations on the great work you're doing in B.C.

You mentioned in your testimony something about air. Something we haven't really considered in this study is the air impacts on water. Also, I'm thinking of Go Home Bay in Georgian Bay, which is up to 70°F already this year. We have temperature effects on water that affect biodiversity. You mentioned how salmon like cold water. Trying to find cold water right now is a challenge.

Could you maybe talk about the importance of clean technology and clean technology investment in things other than water that impact the water?

[Fin Donnelly]

It's great to be back here. It feels a little funny after five years to come back and see so many familiar faces, which is really nice.

In clean-tech innovation, there are many sectors that are rising to the challenge to look at how they can reduce their impacts and provide less of a footprint on watersheds and the water supply. I think many industries are responding to that. That's what is needed, and that's what it's going to take, because we have a challenge. We're getting less water off glaciers. They are receding. We're having a problem with water storage. In British Columbia, we've had issues with forestry management, so retaining that water on the landscape is even more challenging. Municipalities are letting us know that. It's becoming a public safety issue. These are compounding pressures.

Luckily, we've had a good response, not just from clean tech but from many industries in B.C. that are saying they recognize the importance of water and want to be part of the solution. They are coming to the table with how they can make a difference. At times, it's going to require investment from the government as well.

We are collaborating and working together. The clearest one, for me, is in the agriculture community. They're looking at storage issues and innovation and technology. Clean tech will drive agriculture technology.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I think we see that in Guelph as well with precision agriculture and what's been going on there.

In terms of pollution, heat is also pollution. It's also waste for industry. Both sides of that equation need to focus on reducing heat loss, reducing heat waste.

On the net-zero accelerator fund we have in place to try to drive some of this innovation, there's $8 billion going into that fund, which is critical for Canada to meet its climate change goals. However, it also has an impact on water.

Is there anything else around that we might include in our study in terms of air impact or heat impact on water?

[Fin Donnelly]

I'm going to ask James if he has others to add, but I would add that considering and looking at waste as an opportunity is absolutely critical—or looking at what we have been calling waste. That is a new opportunity for municipalities and regional districts. I know that's happening in British Columbia. Our government is doing that through our CleanBC strategy. These are opportunities to help the economy turn around. I think we're doing a good job, but we could obviously do better in looking at partners.