Environment Committee on June 4th, 2024

[James Mack, Assistant Deputy Minister, Government of British Columbia]

No, I think—

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you. My time is running out.

As we all know, climate change is having a significant impact on our freshwater resources.

Can you discuss the importance of emissions reduction efforts and B.C.'s approach to protecting freshwater resources, please?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you.

I'll jump in really quickly and maybe let James add to it.

I think the two are critically linked. You can actually get to solutions by focusing on water and encouraging everyone. The impact on climate affects all economies and all sectors. From housing to transportation, many industries require water, certainly in British Columbia. Some require it more than others. Agriculture, mining and oil and gas all require water. If there's too much coming from one sector, that puts pressure on other sectors.

Abundant flows are critical. As we see receding glaciers and impacts on groundwater and surface water supplies, it's going to be critical that we figure those out. We've been working closely with our agriculture community—cattlemen, dairy and others—to address these concerns. It's going to take everyone working together on that.

[James Mack]

I would just add that for B.C. we have started with an ambitious approach on mitigating climate change. We have a CleanBC strategy that we're well into the implementation of. For the province, a first step is to take serious action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. There is a climate preparedness and adaptation strategy that has been in place now for years with significant funding. A key element of that is rethinking water and how we manage water.

I'll just flag a few specifics.

One is that our emergency management ministry is now the Ministry of Emergency Management and Climate Readiness. When the parliamentary secretary talks about floods, droughts and wildfires, these are increasingly being thought of as climate emergencies, so the responses change.

Second, as the parliamentary secretary noted, he's our first PS for watershed restoration. We now have a Ministry of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship, so we have a provincial minister who is the political leader for the province on water.

In our submission for the Canada water agency, we actually thought that would be a useful partner. It would be a whole-of-government approach on policy for water, with an ability to give funding through partnerships so that we can get to work.

In B.C., it's impossible for the province to act alone. We need farmers, ranchers, first nations, large industries and the federal government. We can't have just individual programs operating in silos anymore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

[James Mack]

We need a partner that comes in a collaborative way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'd like to thank the witnesses for having travelled in order to be here.

Mr. Ali asked Mr. Donnelly the question I had for him. So I'll ask Mr. Shawn.

Mr. Shawn, in your introductory remarks, you spoke at length about agriculture…. I think you're looking for the interpretation channel, Mr. Shawn. I'll wait until you find it.

[Shawn Jaques]

I'm sorry. Can you just repeat the question?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Of course.

In your address, you spoke at length about agriculture and irrigation. Water is indeed important for agriculture. I'm tempted to say that it's important for us too. I've always said that since our bodies are two-thirds water, it must be what's called an essential service.

The climate is warming now. We know the causes and the consequences of climate warming. In a province like yours, which is mainly based on agriculture, have you begun to think about the floods, droughts and related water shortages that will occur with climate change?

Do you plan to deal concurrently with mitigating and adapting to climate change?

[Shawn Jaques]

Thank you for the question.

What our agency is responsible for is the management of water. We have a Ministry of Environment as well. You're absolutely right. Water is important not only for agriculture but also for humans, for industry and for recreation.

What I would say is that how we're adapting to the changing weather patterns is in how we operate the structures that we have. A good example is that last year we saw probably some of the lowest flows on record for the South Saskatchewan River, so we changed the outflows of Lake Diefenbaker, making sure that we didn't impact downstream users and downstream communities. We released less water than we normally would to capture as much water as we could and bring up the level of that reservoir to ensure that we had enough water for all of the users. With the changing weather pattern, I think the way we're operating those structures has an impact.

Mr. Donnelly talked about working with all of the partners. We work with users as well. We saw some different structures in southwest Saskatchewan that didn't fill up because of a lack of precipitation.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'll stop you there, Mr. Shawn, because we know that Saskatchewan is also an oil and gas-producing province. It's also known that climate change is caused in part by oil extraction.

Basically, what you have is the oil and gas sector and agriculture. You said in your introductory comments that this was happening mainly in Saskatchewan. That means that agriculture is threatened by climate change.

[Shawn Jaques]

We recognize that there are changing weather patterns. That's why, when we have a project or are engaged with some of these structures—like I said, we have 74 dams across our province—we make sure we manage it to have ample supplies of water for times when there isn't enough moisture out there. I think that's how we're adapting for agriculture.

I don't know if you have anything to add, David.

[David Cooper]

I have one small addition.

When Gardiner Dam and Lake Diefenbaker were contemplated, it was after the Great Depression and the dry period that had occurred. It was viewed as a drought-proofing project within Palliser's triangle. I think that's part of the reason why we continue to advocate for additional irrigation development. The water is there. The inflows are sustainable. This can help offset some of the concerns you raised in terms of challenges with a changing climate.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you for your reply, but at some point there's going to be drought and that will affect both groundwater and surface water, which means there's going to be a shortage of water.

Mr. Donnelly, you partly answered the question from my colleague Mr. Ali. I'd like to ask you a question about the Canada Water Agency.

Many different departments deal with water, in the territories, the provinces, the municipalities, and so on.

Do you think that the creation of the Canada Water Agency will amount to simply one more structure, or will it be a useful forum for discussion? Will it accomplish anything concrete?

What do you expect from this agency?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you very much for the question.

I think it is a needed function. You can start with the commonality of monitoring and collecting information across the country. That's a way to bring everyone together to find out what the base problems are.

Moving forward, I think the agency can play a role. However, unless it is a coordinating function that brings all provinces and territories to the table in a collective and collaborative way to address these challenges—which it won't be able to do on its own and will need all of government for—it will be too much, even though I know I'm asking the agency to broaden its mandate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll have to stop there.

It's over to you now, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here. It's especially wonderful to see Mr. Donnelly here.

Thank you for your lifelong advocacy for water.

You talked a bit about how early investment in watershed protection ensures we are protecting communities in the face of the climate crisis. In the fall, my colleague Taylor Bachrach, the MP for Skeena—Bulkley Valley, presented a motion calling on the House to establish a $1-billion watershed security fund. It's great that it passed through committee. Since then, all of my NDP colleagues have written to the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, calling on him to implement this fund. However, the funding so far is nowhere to be seen. We've heard from other witnesses that there has been a disparity between funding for the eastern parts of Canada compared with B.C.

What would a $1-billion watershed security fund mean for B.C.?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you very much for the kind comments, Ms. Collins.

I do agree. If I could encourage all parties to support that motion, that would be a good, strong step in the right direction, moving forward with a $1-billion investment. I know that we could leverage that funding from the federal government. We would come to the table in British Columbia with funding, but we would also immediately go to the private sector to engage as well, to leverage. We could turn that money into more investment and could work not only with our ministries but also with our industries as well in British Columbia.

I mentioned the $100 million that B.C. has put into the watershed security fund. Prior to that, we also put $57 million into particular projects, over two budget cycles, where communities, municipalities and nations were engaged in working at the local level with their watersheds. It was incredible. This was post-COVID, so to see people working in areas where they lost employment and to see them coming back into jobs in rural and urban communities was a really positive success story. That didn't stop there.

We also put another $103 million, over two years, into agriculture. Last summer, we experienced drought in many communities. I wanted to add that we could see more drought in different communities unless we take these preventative measures. It's going to intensify the divisive reaction. We've had communities where they came together and built relationships, and they were able to talk to each other to avoid conflict. In some communities where those relationships don't exist, there was conflict. It pits user against user, and I think that is very problematic.

That, again, is perhaps beyond the Canada water agency, and that's where it's an all-of-government approach to work with provinces and territories. Those preventive measures with green infrastructure are absolutely critically important to protect wetlands, to protect riparian areas and to protect areas that will absorb that water in times of flood or drought.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

The B.C. NDP government has been a leader when it comes to implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. With the DRIPA, it seems like the province really spearheaded this. We've seen the federal government also pass legislation to uphold the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. B.C. seems to have a secretariat that is ensuring that this whole-of-government approach and all the legislation, policies and movement forward are going to be in line with the UN declaration.

In what ways can we learn? It seems like that's not happening in the same way at the federal level.

How has your government been prioritizing reconciliation with indigenous partners? How are you partnering with first nations in B.C. on this file, especially when it comes to watershed security?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you for the question.

B.C. is unique in that we have 204 nations within our province. All provinces and territories are different. I would encourage the government to reflect the diversity of each province.

For British Columbia, it's absolutely critical, and we recognize that it's important to work with these nations. In 2019, we made it legislation; we made it law. The law of the land is now to engage with nations, comanaged in many territories, in many parts of British Columbia. That is the way forward. We are finding that it is providing certainty not only for government, moving forward, but also for business and for industry. It's going to take time to develop those relationships. Some have that better, and with others, it will take time. It has, I think, allowed us to do a lot more. We have a lot more work to do.

In courts, nations have been winning for decades. We are reflecting that through legislation, and we also think it's the right thing to do for reconciliation, to move forward and for certainty.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We're now going to Mr. Leslie, who will begin the second round.

Mr. Leslie, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with the Saskatchewan Water Security Agency.

It's a bit of a big question, so feel free to come back in writing to the committee on this. You're a bit of a unique organization. You deal with probably almost all of the federal departments that touch on water, and I know there are many.

I'm curious. From an organizational standpoint, if you had the power to reform or streamline how the federal government, through those numerous departments, deals with your agency, what specifically would you recommend?

[Shawn Jaques]

Those are some of the things that we've thought about as well with the creation of the Canada water agency. Is there a way that you could have everything to do with water centrally located within the federal system to make it easier for not only provinces to navigate but citizens? Right now we have to contact numerous different departments to get information.

I also think that we should make sure that we have regulations that work for jurisdictions and make sure that we're not duplicating what provinces are already doing.

I don't know if you have anything else to add.

[David Cooper]

The only part I would add is that previously there were federal departments that would be able to provide funding for water projects. The PFRA obviously comes to mind and played a huge role in the development of Gardiner Dam. If that was something that could be looked at through the Canada water agency to support those types of projects, that would be very much welcomed by Saskatchewan.