Environment Committee on June 11th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses. I echo Mr. Kram's comments that it's so great to have representatives from such a vast territory in front of us today, virtually. Thank you all for your work in the area of water.

I want to start around the science and the comments Mr. Kanigan made around having a science centre in the north. I also sit on the science and research committee. We're looking at how to support northern science and how to support Arctic science in having centralized science centres.

Water seems to be a big potential for us to be looking at in terms of having a centre. Could you expand on that just a bit for this study?

[Julian Kanigan]

I think it's been described before that if climate change is like the shark, then water is the teeth. That's one of the first places where we're seeing some of the effects. That's why, from a Northwest Territories perspective, we're interested in that intersection between climate change and fresh water.

We have an opportunity in the Mackenzie basin to bring together some pretty unique things. I mentioned that we have a unique co-governance model in Northwest Territories with indigenous governments. There's an ability to bring forward traditional or indigenous knowledge with western science in a place where researchers can come and actually experience that.

I think part of it is about the research, and part of it is about having a physical location. We have a good example of such a place in Inuvik, Northwest Territories, where a lot of researchers come. It's the Western Arctic Research Centre, or WARC. Having something like that in Yellowknife where researchers can come as a destination makes a lot of good sense. Yellowknife is a good place for it, too, because it is a logistical hub. It's easy to get to.

We are experiencing, as I mentioned, climate change at quite a significant rate compared with the rest of the world and compared with the rest of the Arctic. It's a good place to study climate change.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I wasn't going to go down this road, but you've just tempted me. Natan Obed was one of our witnesses this morning. He talked about north-south governance and how a lot of the governance with the Inuit communities is with the provinces below them, in the south of them, and about the complexity of that arrangement that the federal government has made over decades, a century, versus having north-to-north governance.

Could you speak about the importance of collaborating with north-to-north discussions so that the people in the area are the ones who are directly involved?

[Julian Kanigan]

Thanks. I think you raise a really important point. It's the way we do business in the Northwest Territories. There's no way for a government of the Northwest Territories to proceed without the partnership and collaboration of indigenous governments in the territory or in the region that we're talking about. It's just the way things proceed.

The co-management system was developed in the late nineties and then instituted in the early 2000s. That's one step in the progression. I think we're just moving along with UNDRIP legislation and moving forward in terms of reconciliation.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have a limited amount of time here, and I want to talk about how the path of reconciliation has been faster in some areas than others. Science is one of the slowest areas, which is one of the surprising things. Indigenous traditional knowledge, particularly, in this case, around water, hasn't been included in our funding formulas, as an example.

Could you maybe expand on that a little as well, just so that we can try to get a sense of how important it is to be working on reconciliation as it relates to water and water science?

[Julian Kanigan]

Thanks. I'll take it back to a really practical example. We're talking about the Mackenzie River Basin Board and some bilateral agreements. The governments in the Northwest Territories and Alberta have a bilateral agreement for our shared waters, and one of the parts of that agreement is that we'll value and use traditional or indigenous knowledge on par with western science. It's easy to commit to that, but it's harder to actually put it into practice, and we've had this agreement since 2015. We're only now getting to the point where we're really taking the steps that are needed to get there. What it has involved is first building an ethical space with indigenous government representative partners, to have those conversations, and then working at their pace and their scale to understand what the tools are. We started off with the idea of a framework, but it's morphed into something else.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

As the Canada Water Agency is looking at the Mackenzie basin, could you, for the record, let us know how important it is that this discussion we're having be included with discussions with indigenous communities as they look at the Mackenzie?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have to stop to vote now. You have five seconds if you want, Mr. Kanigan, or you can send an answer in writing.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

It says 10 seconds on my clock, but I forgot about the other clock.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. We'll be right back. We have to take a couple of minutes to vote. I'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I call the meeting back to order.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here for this meeting.

I'm going to start with Ms. Rich. Then I'll go to Mr. Kanigan, who talked about the oil sands earlier. I want to share some data about that with him.

Ms. Rich, I have a two-part question.

About a year ago, as part of this study, we had Chief Adam of the Chipewyan First Nation and Chief Tuccaro of the Mikisew First Nation here. During their testimony, they told us about the toxic spill that occurred at the Kearl mine. They also told us that Imperial was not the only party involved; the Government of Alberta and, of course, the Government of Canada were involved, too.

Furthermore, in 2023, your regulatory agency confirmed that, in 2022 alone, four oil companies operating in the oil sands used more than 200 billion litres of fresh water for eight projects.

In 2024, the Alberta government produced a presentation on drought and risk management. The presentation focuses on drought problems and indicates that the watersheds and tributaries of nine rivers are all considered to be in a state of serious water shortage. It goes on to say that, in the absence of heavy rainfall, spring water levels are expected to be disastrous.

All Albertans depend on water as a resource. It is essential to their health, to the survival of indigenous communities and to the survival of ecosystems.

So here's my question. Have you analyzed conflicts over the use of this resource, taking into account protection of the environment, health and the economy?

[Kate Rich]

There's a lot in there, but I will start by noting that our water for life strategy recognizes that we need to use water for three main purposes. I went through the goals, but it really is for people, for the aquatic environment, of course, and for our economy. We do think about that in our management of water.

I'll start with oil and gas and then maybe add some things on drought, if that's okay.

To be fair, I want to note that oil and gas water use is highly regulated in Alberta. We actually have a policy that we've had since 2006. It's a water conservation policy whereby we ask that water licenses be issued for anything only when there's sufficient water for existing users.

That said, in particular, we have a water conservation policy for upstream oil and gas. It asks that no freshwater resources be used unless it is necessary. I just want to be clear: Whether it's reuse of water or whether it is saline sources, that is our policy first and foremost.

In the oil sands mining sector, in 2022, I think we had a drop of intensity of freshwater use of about 20% since 2013. On average, about 76% of the water used in the oil sands is recycled. That is a really important part of our policy.

I also mentioned that, like other regions of Canada, we go through cycles—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Sorry to interrupt, but the fact remains that oil sands exploitation uses fresh water. We know there will be a water shortage due to climate change. You're telling me that the water is recycled and that there are tailings ponds, but there are also toxic spills. That water is not recoverable. I'd like to give you a chance to provide a clear answer about the conflict between the health of the first nations' environment near the Kearl mine and the economy.

[Kate Rich]

I want to be clear that about three-quarters of the water used in the mine water sense is recycled. I think the water that we withdraw is less than 1% of the annual flow of that river. That is because we do encourage the recycling and reuse of said water through operations to minimize any withdrawal.

I think you're also talking about water use and management of tailings as well, which is a little bit separate. I want to be clear that for our oil sands, mine water and tailings reclamation policy, we do look at all the monitoring and everything associated with that. We have our oil sands environmental monitoring program in Alberta, which is a $50-million-per-year program that is overseen and implemented, not just by the Government of Alberta and Environment and Climate Change Canada but also by indigenous communities in the region and by industry. It also includes monitoring of air, land, water, etc., which is an important feature for us and includes community-based monitoring.

When we look at—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm going to stop you there again, madam, because Mr. Kanigan said earlier that the Northwest Territories is located downstream of the oil sands. That means they are directly affected by the use of oil sands processed water and by water shortages. That's what I got from what Mr. Kanigan said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're out of time for an answer.

We'll go to Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I wanted to talk a bit about the next generation of resource extraction, as I know that Yukon has committed some dollars to some exploration as well.

As the demand for critical minerals rises, what steps are being taken by the Yukon government to ensure the water needed for mining does not interfere with freshwater security? How does that fit with Yukon's legal obligations to first nations, those legal obligations that are unique to Yukon?

[Heather Jirousek]

I'm sorry, can I have you repeat the question? There are a couple of questions in there, and I'd like to write them down.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Sure.

In terms of the critical mineral extraction, what steps are being taken by your government to ensure that the water needed for mining does not interfere with freshwater security?

I'm also interested to know more about how that fits with Yukon's legal obligations to first nations. I think those legal obligations are unique for Yukon compared to other parts of Canada, so I'm interested in some information on that.

[Heather Jirousek]

Starting with the first one, ensuring that water needs are there, as both Brendan and I talked about, there's the YESAB process for assessing a project, and then there's a water licence process. Through that process, we have the opportunity to provide input on those applications, water use and deposit of waste. At least, in terms of what we can do in our branch, we can provide input on any of the impacts that we see and suggest mitigations for that. That's one part of the process.

Then, in regard to legal obligations to first nations, again, first nations are on the decision-making board for the water board. There are different elements within final agreements—in chapter 14 of the final agreement, which is specific to water—that talk about the quantity, quality and rate of flow, if that is to be altered in a traditional territory. There are elements of it that are protected.

In terms of the legislative part, honestly, that's not something that we work with every day, and we would refer to the Yukon Water Board or the aboriginal relations branch to provide input on stuff like that. That's the information that I can provide, unless Brendan has anything else to offer there.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm going to go ahead. I just want to ask a bit about community consultation on that. We know that the first generation of resource extraction in this country didn't have a lot of regulation around the use of fresh water, and we know that first nations were impacted. We also know that it's a gender issue, that women are disproportionately impacted by the lack of fresh water.

I'm wondering if there is community consultation around water when certain mining projects are funded or decided on. Is there community consultation with first nations women and how it impacts their lives?

[Heather Jirousek]

Again, we provide one piece of the assessment process. Certainly, when there is a big project like Casino or projects like that, there would typically be a public hearing, and it's a public event where interveners, including technical staff like Brendan, would attend to provide input around impacts.

I do believe—and Brendan, maybe you can add in here—that certainly the company would typically set up something with the first nation government and have ongoing consultation meetings through that process, but, again, we're just an outside player in the process.

Certainly through YESAB and the water board process, there are consultation processes, but the degree to which they engage I'm not sure about.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I probably don't have time for more than one more question, but I want to ask how the Canada water agency has ensured that those northern voices and indigenous voices have been heard.