Environment Committee on June 11th, 2024

[Daniel Wolfish]

Absolutely.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks.

Another question is around the nation-to-nation relationships that are so central to the work you're embarking on.

How are you working in collaboration with individual indigenous nations and engaging with the diversity of nations in addition to the national indigenous organizations?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Thank you. I'll answer that question in two ways.

I'll start with our programmatic work on the ground. In each of our freshwater ecosystem initiatives, we sought out partnerships with first nations and Métis, largely. We have not had the same outreach yet with Inuit, in large part because we don't have freshwater ecosystem initiatives in Inuit communities. For example, in Ontario, we have a relationship with the Chiefs of Ontario and the Métis Nation of Ontario. We're looking at a funding arrangement. We're co-developing that funding arrangement with them to help identify the priorities they would like to pursue in those ecosystems and then implement them.

We take a different approach in each ecosystem, depending on the relationship with the province and the priorities of the province. We're taking a similar approach in the Lake Winnipeg basin. We're working closely with Quebec on identifying ways to work with first nations, and that will be part of our ongoing conversations as we renew our Canada-Quebec agreement for the St. Lawrence action plan. That's on the programmatic level.

At the national level, we have started to engage with first nations, Métis and Inuit at the provincial and federal levels and through a variety of other mechanisms to talk about how we want to work with them on the modernization of the Canada Water Act. The goal here is to develop, with them, mechanisms and ways to interact so that we're being respectful of traditional ways of information sharing and of the information they may hold. We want to make sure we're bringing the water carriers into the conversation.

We're planning to have a bit of a grassroots assembly of first peoples—Inuit, Métis and first nations—to have a conversation around water and share perspectives. We're looking to do so in a way that is sensitive to the needs, approaches and perspectives that first nations, Métis and Inuit have on water.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. The six minutes are up.

We are moving on to the second round.

You have the floor, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, dear colleagues.

Ladies, gentlemen, welcome to your Parliament.

We are gathered here to talk about the Canada Water Agency. We are all passionate about water; it goes without saying.

I’d like to give a little shout-out to a member of the committee, Mr. Adam van Koeverden, who spoke earlier about recreational aquatic activities. When one participates in the Olympic Games and wins four Olympic medals, one of them a gold, it’s a bit more than “recreational,” in my point of view. It’s rather exceptional.

Sir, I wish you a happy 20th anniversary with your gold medal.

Mr. Wolfish, I want to acknowledge you and your bilingualism, which is very inspiring for us all. I greatly appreciate it.

Earlier, my colleague, the member for Terrebonne… Is it Terrebonne, Ms. Pauzé?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Come on, Mr. Deltell, I’m the member for Repentigny.

[Voices]

Oh, oh! (laughter)

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Pardon me.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Terrebonne is the neighbouring riding.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, of course. I often go through there, in fact. That’s where I stop to recharge my electric car.

Earlier, we were talking about the principle of jurisdictions. It is obvious, Mr. Chair, that water falls under the jurisdiction of every level of public administration. It involves federal, provincial and municipal governments. Canada covers over 5,000 km. There are 10 provinces, 3 territories and nearly 4,000 municipalities, if not more.

Mr. Wolfish, how do you manage everyone’s jurisdictional issues within the scope of a water-related project, problem or issue?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Thank you for your question.

I would say it depends on the situation or the specific issue. A regulatory question or problem should fall under the responsibility of those mandated to implement the legislation or the team responsible for implementing a regulatory program. That’s important, because for the federal government, some regulations should be put in place.

The Canada Water Agency’s objective is to coordinate efforts in terms of regulation and freshwater management and protection programs, while taking into account shared responsibilities and jurisdictions. The agency will not have a regulatory role. It’s clear that each province has its own regulatory framework and its own water management programs. Our objective is to respect that and coordinate our efforts to implement programs that protect or restore aquatic ecosystems.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I will ask you a somewhat sensitive question on the relationships we might have with first nations. Relationships between first nations sometimes lead to debates. That’s normal.

Let’s take an example that affects an area closer to my riding. I’ve had the great honour and privilege of representing the Wendake Wendats for nearly 16 years now, first at the Quebec legislative assembly, and now here. The Wendats are claiming Nionwentsïo, their ancestral land. It includes the Laurentides wildlife reserve north of Quebec and extends to Lac‑Saint‑Jean and the Saguenay region.

However, there is overlap with part of the territory claimed by the Innu nation, which is causing concerns.

In short, some First Nations claims overlap each other. First Nations don’t necessarily speak with one voice. It’s legitimate and it’s normal, as it would be in any other situation.

What do you do in a case like that?

[Daniel Wolfish]

To start, we would ask: Which jurisdictional pillar is involved?

We want to respect Quebec’s leadership in terms of managing resources in Quebec. Recently, I had the opportunity to meet with an Abenaki community. We have a partnership with them to implement some programs included in the St. Lawrence Action Plan, 2011 to 2026.

Our goal is to coordinate our activities based on the priorities outlined by Quebec and its partners in the province regarding the action plan, in order to uphold the agreement between Quebec and Canada for those activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Ali, are you connected now? You were connected with the audio, but now we can see you.

You have five minutes for your questions.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Chair, are we in the first hour or are we in the second?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're in the first hour but the second round of questions. We're with the Canada water agency.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

My first question is about the Canada water agency's relationship with the provinces. At our meeting on June 4, we heard from provincial government witnesses about their concern that provincial jurisdiction is respected. They did not want that agency to be a regulator or duplicator of services that the provinces are already doing. They wanted the agency to be support-focused, with the ability to collaborate on major water projects, cost-sharing opportunities, building infrastructure and information and knowledge sharing.

How would you respond to those concerns? How will the Canada water agency ensure that it does not infringe on provincial jurisdiction? Will the Canada water agency expand federal responsibility for fresh water, and, if so, in what ways?

[Daniel Wolfish]

When we did our consultations with provinces and territories over the period of 2020 to 2023, we heard similar comments. If you look at the bill that is currently before the Senate now for the creation of the Canada water agency, you'll note that the agency does not have a regulatory mandate. That's important, because we recognize the regulatory role played by the provinces and territories or that already exists and is performed well by other federal departments. We have no intention at this time of moving into a regulatory role.

The provinces have noted that they want to have opportunities for identifying projects and priorities and to have joint funding programs, and that's, indeed, what our freshwater ecosystem initiatives are about. If you look at some of our partners in Ontario, the conservation authorities are, in fact, creatures of the province. Through the St. Lawrence action plan, we provide support to Quebec. With Lake Winnipeg, we have partners that we fund jointly. In many cases, our funding has matches from provinces and other sources, so we have an opportunity to be able to work together on joint funding for projects. Through the MOU with Manitoba, the Canada-Ontario agreement and our agreement with Quebec, we're able to identify joint priorities and allow for those priorities to pattern our work.

The Canada water agency does not have an intention at this time to expand federal areas of work but rather to break the silos to coordinate. Frankly, there's enough work on our plate just doing that, bringing together a coordinated function and bringing expertise together. An example of what we've recently done in this area is that we joined as a junior partner with ISC to help support them in the co-development with the AFN of Bill C-61, which is currently at second reading in the House of Commons. That was a very early accomplishment that I feel the agency was able to undertake that shows exactly how we can bring expertise together to break down silos but not get in the way of the role of provinces and territories.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Canada is continuing to see the impacts of climate change, and this year's wildfire season is starting off very early. What role do you expect the Canada water agency to play in adapting to the impacts of climate change in the context of our water resources?

[Daniel Wolfish]

I'll start with that answer, and then if my colleague from MSC wants to chime in, we'll certainly provide that opportunity.

We recognize that it's not just wildfires, drought, floods and variability. We want to work very closely with Environment and Climate Change Canada on the adaptation strategy, continue our work on policy research, coordinate across the federal government on these issues with our federal partners, and continue to gather information, intelligence and analysis from our academic partners, first nations, Métis, Inuit and the provinces and territories, so that we can continue to develop avenues of dialogue and conversation and then, where necessary, support federal departments or provinces in the actions they will take. This is a long-term project for us, recognizing that climate change impacts are part of the ongoing work we need to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the five minutes are up.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

In large part, you answered the question on sharing information, which was an ask from everyone. However, you just said you will continue to collect information. I think people don’t want you to collect it; they want you to communicate it.

So, is there something else planned in that respect?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Thank you for the question.

There are several ways to communicate information and data. First, we are organizing a workshop in Burlington in September. The goal is to create a framework for collecting and sharing data and to look into communications, accessibility and interoperability challenges. So, that’s one approach.

Then, we are also working with our partners on a strategy or national framework for science and technology. My colleague from the science and technology branch could tell you more about it.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Every departmental group and representative we’ve heard from told us that they don’t have access to all the information. Of course, there is an astronomical amount of information, but it represents a very significant concern. I’d like to make a connection with global warming. We know that it causes flooding and drought. In some parts of the country, there are even water shortages.

Do you have a specific role to play in that respect?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Are you talking about climate change?