Environment Committee on June 11th, 2024

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks very much.

Thank you, again, for attending this meeting. I think it's our last meeting.

Is this our penultimate or last meeting of this very important study?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, it is.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

As somebody who's loved Canadian waterways for most of my life, I'm very grateful for all of your work. This work is essential. We—when I say “we”, I mean people who use Canadian waterways for recreation, fishing and otherwise—are grateful for your work.

Previously, I've spoken about the importance of conservation authorities and their water management programs. I've kind of seen this a little bit as an extension of that work that we're able to do in Ontario because of the gift of forethought many, many years ago. Establishing the conservation authorities provided Ontario and Ontarians with a lot of reassurance, provided insurance companies with a lot of data, and provided developers with dos and don'ts.

Sections of my riding of Milton, for example, are a flood plain. It doesn't look like a flood plain, but when a 50-year or 100-year storm comes through, there would be damage. We're really grateful for that work. There's that old adage that the best time to plant a tree was 50 years ago, so why not do it today? I'm glad to see that, from the perspective of a water agency, we're doing that today, because it's very, very important work.

Congratulations on the progress. I didn't know that there already were calls out for many water bodies that are close to our regions. Just among the four of us here, I think you named parts of our watersheds. Are you able to shed any water or light on those projects, or are they still embargoed due to the fact that they're under consideration?

[Daniel Wolfish]

We've done a call. I should add that Lake Winnipeg has also been part of our recent calls. We've done a call. Right now, we're working through the ones that came from the Great Lakes in particular. That's our largest program and the one with the most significant interest. In fact, the conservation authorities formed a large number of those who made applications for funding. We're certainly going through them now.

What I can say is that we received more applications than we have budget for. This is, then, showing a sign of significant interest in the work that we have to do. We have a number of pillars of work for which we've asked for proposals. One deals with the basin in and around Lake Erie to manage nutrient and phosphate flows going into Lake Erie. We have others around the areas of concern and trying to deal with contaminants in and around the Great Lakes. We continue to move the areas of concern off the shared list that we have with the United States. Many of these programs are dealt with and are priorities through the Canada-U.S. Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement.

Similarly, we have priorities for Lake Winnipeg around nutrient loading, governance and partnerships.

We continue to work with Quebec in identifying the priorities that we need to do around the St. Lawrence action plan. In fact, we've initiated conversations with Quebec around renewing the agreement with Quebec on the St. Lawrence action plan, given that the agreement will come due in 2026. Early conversations are under way.

There is a lot of programmatic work that we're starting to undertake.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

That's fantastic. Congrats on all the progress. It's wonderful to see.

Mr. Wolfish, in 2023, our budget provided “$650 million over ten years, starting [this year], to support monitoring, assessment, and restoration work in the Great Lakes”—all the ones you mentioned, I believe.

It's been a long time, in my view, since any government in Canada has expressed such sincere interest in supporting the Great Lakes and the Great Lakes watershed. Frankly, it's overdue. It's a huge step forward for our region in water protections and stewardship. Thank you for undertaking that work.

I was hoping to connect it a bit to some of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission's work on preventing lamprey infestations.

Could you elaborate on any of those potential areas where the Canada water agency will be able to support and—I'll stop using water analogies as soon as I'm done—buoy that work?

[Daniel Wolfish]

We are navigating those waters. We're in our canoe. We have our paddle.

I've had the opportunity to meet on several occasions with the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. There was a Great Lakes Day in Washington that we participated in. There was also a Great Lakes Day here on the Hill. I met with them individually. I also meet with the International Joint Commission and others who are involved in Great Lakes work.

There was recently an initiative in Montreal, where the Great Lakes mayors were meeting to talk about the Great Lakes and development of the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence. We continue to engage with many of those partners to learn about opportunities to collaborate on data, on science and on opportunities for collaboration within the freshwater ecosystems initiatives, and to continue talking about the policy agenda that we need to develop.

One of the key pieces that we're looking at doing is recognizing that we should always keep an eye two, three or four years out into the future on the kinds of issues that we want to be ready to provide advice on, given the water challenges we have in Canada, to continue to work with them to be able to collect their policy work and their data and to ready ourselves to be strong advisers to the government on freshwater management.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks.

Is the Great Lakes initiative that you mentioned the Great Lakes freshwater ecosystem initiative?

[Daniel Wolfish]

We have eight freshwater ecosystem initiatives across the country. They include the Great Lakes, Simcoe and Lake of the Woods, and similar action plans were listed in New Brunswick, Lake Winnipeg, Fraser and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Dear colleagues, we will take a break to go vote and then resume the sitting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Now that our duty is done, we are resuming the sitting.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Technical difficulties] we held several meetings, and met with a lot of people. I think everyone who testified before the committee talked to us about the Canada Water Agency and gave it a mandate.

I entertained myself by noting some of what was said. Representatives from a leaders’ coalition of the water surveillance community, the Living Lakes Network, the AquaAction organization, the Gaspé Beaubien foundation, the city of Montreal, the Canadian Association on Water Monitoring, the Eau secours organization and several others all made recommendations to the agency. Among those recommendations, we specifically heard that eliminating ministerial silos is essential; taking an integrated approach is necessary; the barrier between Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada and the Minister of the Environment must come down; co‑operation between federal departments needs improvement; and a collaborative and intergovernmental approach is needed, from ideas to implementation.

Your shoulders may feel heavier just listening to it.

If I understand correctly, the Canadian Council of Ministers for the Environment will have the authority to coordinate effectively—we hope—meetings and collaborations between different levels, such as between the federal government and provincial and territorial governments, as well as indigenous communities.

What will we put in place to ensure real, productive and definitive conversations not only between levels of government, but also between federal departments?

What we are hearing is that departments work in isolation. Do you think that there will be more collaboration, or is this just one more structure that will have to be taken into account?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Thank you for the question.

I had the opportunity to meet with many stakeholders, including representatives from the Gaspé Beaubien foundation, which launched AquaAction, and is part of the Canadian Coalition for Healthy Waters. It is true that many federal departments work in silos. That’s why the government decided to create the Canada Water Agency. Breaking down silos is an essential part of our mandate.

To fulfill this mandate, we created a coordinating committee representing all assistant deputy ministers with responsibilities relating to freshwater management. It includes, for example, people from Natural Resources Canada, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Indigenous Services Canada. Each person is focused on the issues for which they are responsible. The committee’s objective is to coordinate activities and provide advice to cabinet members.

Furthermore, my colleague Ms. Cervoni created what we call a policy centre. This centre has members from six departments, including Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and its mandate is to create new policies that take each department’s mandate into account. This group is responsible for coordination and integrated policies at the Canada Water Agency.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

That means you’re sure you won’t just be one more structure, and can ensure better coordination between all the stakeholders, which was the ask put forward by just about everyone.

On your website, it says that the “Canada Water Agency delivers on key elements of the strengthened Freshwater Action Plan,” that it “is leading the modernization of the Canada Water Act,” that it “provides policy leadership and develops whole-of-government approaches to freshwater challenges and opportunities” and “makes it easier for Canadians and decision makers to find federal freshwater resources.”

I’m sure you understand that our concern at the Bloc Québécois is always to avoid interference in areas of jurisdiction that fall under Quebec and the provinces.

Is it possible to review the structure of Environment and Climate Change Canada, so as to ensure optimal use of the expertise already available within the department?

[Daniel Wolfish]

We took a few steps to optimize resources and expertise. First, I’m developing a memorandum of understanding with the department to determine how we can work closely with organizations such as the Meteorological Service of Canada, the Science and Technology Branch and the people mandated with implementing the Fisheries Act.

Implementing this structure and a coordinating committee will lead to sharing information, discussing challenges, coordinating required responses and providing advice to ministers. The objective is to create a single, integrated channel for providing advice to our minister.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

I want to come back to what people frequently told us about sharing information. I would imagine you’re also concerned about this, on your side. I’m sure they talked to you about it.

What, exactly, will be implemented to promote information sharing between all these people?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That is an excellent question, but your time is up, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I’ll be able to come back to it during my next turn for two and a half minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, you may. In any case, I would very much like to hear the answer as well, but unfortunately, my hands are tied.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to thank all of the witnesses for coming today, sharing your expertise and answering our questions.

We have heard from a number of the witnesses who joined us for this study that there is a funding disparity between the central regions of Canada and British Columbia. The Fraser River is the only watershed in B.C. that was included on the priority list for the Canada water agency. In my home province of British Columbia, our watersheds are under threat from multi-year droughts, extreme flooding and other climate impacts, but also from industry.

How are you addressing that concern about the disparity between different regions?

[Daniel Wolfish]

Thank you for that question.

It is true that there is a disparity, at the moment. The Great Lakes program has been around for almost 50 years, so it's well developed. We have targets and results that we can measure. That's helped build momentum and continuing results. Similarly, we've had a good history of almost 30 years now of working with Quebec on the St. Lawrence action plan. We're getting there on Lake Winnipeg. We've had some very good progress. We have an MOU with Manitoba. We're starting to develop some very good targets and approaches, again, so that's gathering momentum.

We're at the stage where we need to do that now in a few other places—the Fraser, the Mackenzie and the Wolastoq being key places where we need to start to move forward. Our goal is to continue to work with people in the Fraser and the Government of British Columbia to identify the kind of science we need to do. Using that science, how can we start to develop the appropriate types of targets? What are the gaps in information that we have? From there, we can start working on an action plan. I think those will take some time for us to do, but the goal would be to go, through that collaboration, from early conversations to ones where we can make a solid case for investment.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

One of the other issues that were raised as threats to B.C. waters was invasive zebra mussels. That's a big concern.

What are we doing to prevent the spread of zebra mussels and to be proactive about this threat?

[Daniel Wolfish]

That's a great question.

Zebra mussels and invasive aquatic species tend to be the responsibility of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Our goal would be to continue to work with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and look for opportunities with them.

We would do this across any of our freshwater ecosystems, whether it's for zebra mussels, sea lamprey or Asian carp. We look to see what tools are available and in place given their mandates, what our partners are doing and what actions we can put on the ground as part of our freshwater ecosystem initiatives to prevent the spread of invasive species.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Do you have a sense of whether that's a reactive approach or a proactive approach? What we've heard from witnesses is that, once zebra mussels are there, it feels like it's almost a lost cause.

[Daniel Wolfish]

I would need to defer to Fisheries and Oceans regarding how they've designed their approach and whether it's proactive or reactive.

Our goal would be to continue to work with our stakeholders and Fisheries and Oceans to survey what additional actions we can take through the Canada water agency to help support them.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

One of the concerns I have is around the siloing of this kind of work. It seems important that the Canada water agency would work very closely with Fisheries and Oceans.

Is there any way you could follow up with some information about how you work with the Department of Fisheries on this issue?