Environment Committee on Aug. 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. I don't think that's a point of order.

Ms. Pauzé, you may continue.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

The Bloc Québécois has been working since the beginning of August to introduce a motion, the one you have in front of you. Should I take the time to read it all out?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, of course.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

People also received it in advance, which will make things easier. It reads:

That the committee undertake an in-depth study of the means to be taken to adequately protect caribou by avoiding or minimizing the effects on economic activities arising from the forestry sector. That this study focus on identifying: i) the issues that threaten the caribou and the means and measures that could be put forward to protect it; ii) the impact of an emergency decree on lumber and the forestry industry; iii) the socio-economic effects of forest fires on communities; and iv) the role of the forestry sector in achieving carbon neutrality targets. That to this end, the committee hold a minimum of three meetings and that the committee: a) Invite the Minister of the Environment and officials to respond on the subject of the emergency decree and the elements he intends to take into account; b) Invite, in particular and without limitation: environmental experts, companies, unions representing forest workers, representatives of the First Nations concerned, and any other witnesses the Committee deems necessary; and c) Report its findings and recommendations to the House.

The minister postponed the consultations for a month, so we were able to dig to the roots of this motion and to perfect it as best we could. We felt that members could not be heard in the context of Minister Guilbeault's consultations. This motion was therefore the best way to allow members to be heard on this matter, which is being heavily debated right now and concerns the people affected. We felt that this debate, which is central, should take place on the committee, hence the urgency of holding this meeting today.

Basically, this motion takes everything into account. One is that it's a species at risk. I don't think anyone here would want to be a willing participant in the Boreal caribou's extinction. Then, we also have to think about the forestry sector, forest fires, the pulp and paper sector's well-known transition to something else, with all our IT tools, as well as customs tariffs, which are increasing. There's no subsidy for that sector. We have to try to look at the big picture.

I come from the education sector. In our classes, when a lot of students are struggling, we call on special education technicians, or SETs. When they walk into the classroom, the first thing they say to a struggling student is that there's no problem, only solutions, and that they will find them together. That's what the motion proposes. There are solutions to be found, and we want to be part of the debate to find them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Martel, you have the floor.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I would have liked to be there in person, but I'm attending by videoconference because, as you well know, our leader Pierre Poilievre is in my area. This afternoon, he'll be meeting with representatives of the Boisaco Group. That's why I wasn't able to travel there, but I was very happy that a meeting was being held today.

On two occasions, we tried to invite the Standing Committee on Natural Resources to address this, but the Bloc Québécois refused each time. So I was very pleased to attend today's meeting.

At our offices, we're getting calls from people who are almost in distress. We meet people on the street. Some municipalities are suffering and will suffer the effects of this order on the forestry industry. People are very concerned because it could put businesses and even some municipalities where the majority of people work in the forestry industry out of business. Our leader Pierre Poilievre and our party trust in Quebec. It's up to Quebec to protect the industry and caribou.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Martel.

Mr. Berthold, you have the floor.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to move an amendment to my colleague's motion.

In the first paragraph, right after “forestry sector”, I would add “given that the Quebec government has assessed that at least 2,000 jobs will be impacted”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Would anyone like to discuss the amendment?

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, we can do both, that is to say protect the Boreal caribou, but first and foremost, all the jobs. The provincial government has full jurisdiction in this area, and it has already released its plan. In fact, since 2018, it's been actively working on this situation, as the Quebec environment minister scathingly reminded us in a letter to Minister Guilbeault.

So we're quite prepared to find solutions, but the solution already exists and has been acted on by the Government of Quebec, precisely to protect those jobs. We believe in that solution and we trust the Government of Quebec on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

So you're in favour of the amendment.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You heard what I said loud and clear, and I thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to my colleagues and I thank—

I'm sorry, but the interpretation is in my ear, and it's very distracting, so I think I'll just speak English. I don't know how to switch it. I guess it's because I'm on the English channel. I'm sorry about that.

I would like to thank Madame Pauzé for her leadership in recalling the committee for this meeting. She has been in touch with me a couple of times and with other members on the Liberal side of this committee over the last couple of weeks and months, but any effort to recall this committee by the Conservative side has happened independently of any outreach to me.

I thank my friend and colleague Gérard Deltell for reaching out during the Olympics to congratulate me on 20 years since I won a medal at the Olympics, but we didn't talk about committee business, so I applaud everybody's enthusiasm and interest in this important issue.

I also had an amendment to provide, and I suppose I'll provide it after we conclude the debate on this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, we'll vote on this one first.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Our efforts are to protect both jobs and caribou. I think they have to happen together, and not independently of one another. I also know that, like all aspects of nature, caribou don't vote and don't have the ability to hire lobbyists, so sometimes we have to consider their well-being as well from more of an advocacy perspective, because it's not as though nature always has its lobbyists on the Hill.

I share the aspirational component to ensure that it would protect jobs and our natural environment at the same time, and I'm certain this committee will continue its good work in consulting with stakeholders and experts in that regard so we can provide recommendations to the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Berthold, you have the floor.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I'm a bit dumbfounded by what I've just heard, Mr. Chair.

First, I'd like to nip this thing about calls made regarding the Bloc Québécois motion in the bud. At the beginning of the summer, it was agreed that potential discussions would take place between the House leaders. We in the Conservative Party have respected that. We never received any calls from the Bloc Québécois House leader or the government House leader to hold this Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development meeting. We worked to obtain meetings of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources on two occasions, and the Bloc Québécois rejected our requests. I can't understand how and why they rejected them, because those meetings would have been very important for the workers, for the Boreal caribou and, above all, for respecting provincial jurisdictions.

Furthermore, I'm flabbergasted to hear my colleague say that the caribou cannot hire lobbyists. I don't understand how the Bloc Québécois is going to continue to support the Liberal position, because the caribou lobbyist right now is the Government of Quebec. The Quebec government itself has called the federal decree “unconscionable interference”.

I will read what the Government of Quebec said through ministers Blanchette Vézina and Charette when it learned that the federal Liberal government intended to impose this radical order: “Quebec shares your desire to ensure the survival of Boreal caribou…”. We agree with Quebec. That is its responsibility. I'll continue: “…your government's approach in issuing an emergency order under the Species at Risk Act is an unspeakable affront…The management of public lands, and of the species found therein, falls under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Quebec government…”.

I hear my Liberal colleagues practically calling the Government of Quebec a lobbyist, when that is its area of jurisdiction and responsibility. We trust the Government of Quebec to respect and protect both forestry jobs and the caribou. My Liberal colleague's comments are somewhat insulting. I don't understand how the Bloc Québécois is going to support the position—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden.

What's the point of order?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I feel as though my words are being taken completely out of context. I was talking about how—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We know that's not a point of order. That's a point of debate. We hear this all the time in the House.

Go ahead, Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much.

I heard the comment. Of course, we can't go back, Mr. Chair. He said what he said, and unfortunately that's how I interpreted it.

I must say that all of this is being done in a context where, for over a year now, our leader Mr. Poilievre has been clearly denouncing the federal Liberal government's intention to impose a radical order that encroaches on Quebec's jurisdiction over Quebec woodlands. He first denounced it in April 2023. He has since done so several times.

One thing is for sure, we can't pass a motion like this without talking about jobs, let alone families and people who may lose their jobs because of the radical position taken by the current Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

I therefore support the amendment I have proposed, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Pauzé, would you like to speak to the amendment?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I was wondering where I was in the speaking order.