Evidence of meeting #118 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Chair, I have a quick point of clarification, if I may.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I would just like to start by asking if we have any updates from Minister Guilbeault or officials on when they'll be attending. My understanding is that they were asked. I think we need to understand from an environmental standpoint what the purpose is of their current plan of destroying the forestry industry and upending communities, and whether or not they've looked at other options that include maternal penning or predation control.
When will the minister be appearing to explain? Secondarily to that, what role will this set of meetings have in the ongoing consultation that's slated to end on September 15? I just want to understand when the minister will be appearing so that we can ask very important environmental-related questions and about the jobs that will be impacted by this overbearing decision from the minister.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We're working on getting the minister in for the 18th. I don't know if it's absolutely confirmed, but I'm hopeful that he'll be here the 18th of September.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
So after the consultation ends, the minister will appear before this parliamentary committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
He'll be here. I'm working on getting him here on the 18th, yes.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Is there any chance we could have him before the consultation ends?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I don't believe so. We tried, but I don't think we were able to get him earlier.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I can't speak for him. I can speak for myself, and I tried hard.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I would like the minister to try hard to explain this decision and why he's upending communities and destroying jobs in Quebec.
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes. Okay.
I welcome the members of the committee as well as the first group of witnesses, who are joining us by video conference.
For the benefit of the witnesses, who may not be familiar with all the procedures we have in place in the House of Commons to avoid acoustic shocks, I will outline the steps to follow.
If you do not have the floor, please turn off your microphone. When you do have the floor, please make sure your microphone is at about nose level.
We will now begin.
For the first panel of witnesses, we welcome first Mr. Yanick Baillargeon, who is president of Alliance forêt boréale. Then we have Bastien Deschênes and Karl Gauthier from Granulco. Finally, we are pleased to welcome two representatives of the Essipit Innu First Nation Council, Chief Martin Dufour and Mr. Michael Ross, who is director of development and territory.
Each organization will have five minutes to make their opening remarks.
We'll begin with Mr. Yanick Baillargeon.
You have the floor for five minutes.
Yanick Baillargeon President, Alliance forêt boréale
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I'd like to thank the committee for welcoming us today.
Kwe, Chief Dufour. Good morning, committee members. My name is Yanick Baillargeon and I am a warden. I'm appearing today as president of Alliance forêt boréale, a political organization made up of elected municipal officials from the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, La Haute-Côte-Nord and Manicouagan RCMs. Our territory is made up of 65 municipalities, 34 of which depend on the forestry sector. For these municipalities, forests are an important source of economic development, employment and vitality. Without the forestry sector, the future of these municipalities would be severely compromised, as it is our territory's largest employer. In fact, it creates over 20,000 direct, indirect and induced jobs, and generates over a billion dollars in wages.
Our organization advocates sustainable development and, in that respect, I would like to point out that we are requesting that measures to protect the woodland caribou be determined in consultation with local stakeholders in order to find win-win solutions.
In his July 16, 2024 impact analysis, Quebec's chief forester estimated the allowable cut for all species combined at nearly 800,000 cubic metres of wood for the Pipmuacan provisional zone, and at 357,000 cubic metres for Charlevoix. Several guaranteed-access licensees carry out forestry operations in these areas. In addition to timber harvesting, many forestry contractors carry out silvicultural work. The entire forestry sector is linked and interwoven like a chain. As soon as one link is cut, the chain breaks. If the decree is applied as it stands, more than 1.1 million cubic metres will be subtracted from our territory's allowable cut. Such a reduction jeopardizes not only the future of our forest communities, but also that of our entire region.
In that sense, Alliance forêt boréale is highly concerned about the socio-economic consequences that would transpire were the decree proposed by the Government of Canada to be applied. It is estimated that 100,000 cubic metres of wood create 325 direct, indirect and induced jobs, and that each cubic metre of wood harvested generates $200 in tax benefits. Based on the results of Quebec's chief forester, job losses in the Pipmuacan region alone are estimated at nearly 2,500, which would be catastrophic. In the Charlevoix region, an additional 1,160 workers will lose their jobs.
We wonder how the Government of Canada can justify such consequences for workers, families and forest communities in Quebec.
Environment and Climate Change Canada considers only the cubic metres of wood that will be lost for each mill. Yet the decree will also have an indirect impact on forestry contractors and subcontractors, as well as induced impacts on businesses and other services in our communities. That is to say nothing of the social upheaval that could result from job losses.
Once again, we wonder how the Government of Canada can make the decision to implement such a decree without considering the indirect, induced and, above all, social impacts on forest communities.
The Government of Canada must consider that, in the Pipmuacan provisional zone, there are over 700 cottagers, three controlled harvesting zones, six outfitters, thousands of kilometres of multi-use roads, tens of kilometres of off-road vehicle trails as well as 11 trapping camps. So we're talking about significant economic and social activity.
How can the government claim to be able to achieve a disturbance rate of 35% by maintaining these uses and occupations in the sector, but prohibiting forestry activities there, when the sector is currently more than 80% disturbed?
Alliance forêt boréale also found that the Government of Canada had reached an agreement with Saskatchewan to allow a 60% disturbance rate in the northern part of the woodland caribou range. The essential condition for signing such an agreement is to demonstrate scientifically that this rate of disturbance does not jeopardize the survival of the species and its future. In other words, if this agreement has been signed, it is because it has been demonstrated that the species could survive with a disturbance rate of 60%.
Why not set a disturbance rate for Quebec that takes the territory's forest productivity into account, as is the case for Saskatchewan?
We believe that imposing protection measures by emergency decree is unacceptable given that Quebec is working on a comprehensive protection vision. We demand a balance between protecting the species and preserving forest communities. Our organization believes that it is possible to reconcile forest management and caribou protection through rigorous management that respects biodiversity, and that, as such, the Quebec government has all the jurisdiction and credibility to achieve this.
Alliance forêt boréale urges the federal government to refrain from adopting this decree, which would have disastrous social and economic consequences, to refrain from interfering in the Quebec government's areas of jurisdiction, and to respect the processes currently underway.
Alliance forêt boréale is convinced that the imposition of this emergency decree will have catastrophic consequences on the economy and workers of our forest communities. More than 3,600 families will be directly affected by this measure that the Canadian government wishes to implement. How can it not take into consideration the social and economic consequences—not to mention the human suffering—that will result from the application of this decree?
Is the Government of Canada prepared to throw 3,600 families out on the street, including 2,500 in the Haute-Côte-Nord MRC territory alone, kill our territory's regional economy and create ghost villages that live off the government?
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Mr. Baillargeon.
We will now move on to Mr. Deschênes, from Granulco.
Mr. Deschênes, you have five minutes.
Bastien Deschênes President, Granulco Inc.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, committee members, as representatives of the Granulco company, we wish to express our deep concerns regarding the Liberal government's desire to adopt an emergency decree for the protection of the woodland caribou. This initiative, launched last June, has raised grave concerns among our workers and fellow citizens. Such a decree would have irreversible consequences for our community.
Founded in 2009, Granulco is a company integrated into the Boisaco group. Like all companies affiliated to the Boisaco Group, Granulco is organized according to a unique collective and co‑operative model in which workers share ownership of the group. We're talking about nearly 1,400 workers and citizens, mostly from the region.
Granulco was born out of Boisaco's desire to diversify its activities and add value to residual materials from sawmilling to create new products. Its shareholders are the Essipit Innu First Nation Council; two investment companies, Intrafor and Investra, which bring together the citizens of our community; two workers' co‑operatives, COFOR and UNISACO; and a management company, the Boisaco group.
Our company is located in the Sacré-Coeur industrial complex, where the Boisaco, Ripco and Sacopan plants are located. We specialize in the manufacture and marketing of energy-efficient wood pellets, which have been awarded many of the world's most demanding certifications. Our pellets are produced mainly from by-products generated by the various companies in the Boisaco group, which have internationally recognized forestry certification.
Our company generates 30 direct jobs associated with plant operations and various transportation activities. We're talking about 30 full-time, well-paid jobs that support 30 families and, in turn, a hundred or so local residents.
Granulco supplies certified bagged pellets for the residential heating market, mainly in Quebec, as well as equestrian bedding for the U.S. market. We are also very proud to have recently developed the bulk pellet market for export. Our bulk pellets are used to replace coal in power plants in the French West Indies. In this way, Granulco contributes directly to the reduction of global greenhouse gas emissions.
It is important to emphasize that Granulco is contractually committed to delivering specific volumes over several years. In that context, Granulco had to carry out a modernization project worth over $18.5 million, which was completed in December 2023. Thanks to this project, the Boisaco Group's industrial complex in Sacré-Coeur is now able to use all by-products from the Boisaco sawmill. That includes chips, sawdust, shavings and bark. This complex, the only one of its kind in Quebec, makes it possible to add value to the entire resource made available to the group to satisfy its Canadian and international customers.
The end of Boisaco's activities invariably implies the end of Granulco's activities, as it would be impossible, and I do mean impossible, to find other sources of supply nearby to replace the volume lost.
It's important to understand that, should Mr. Guilbeault's decree come to pass, it wouldn't just be Boisaco that would suffer the consequences, but all the companies in the industrial complex supplied with raw material by Boisaco's sawmill, which includes Granulco. The adoption of this decree would wipe out all the efforts made to build this company and the jobs it provides.
The government has a duty, and I do mean a duty, as well as a responsibility to consider all the facts and issues in this matter. It is inconceivable that we would sacrifice our workers, our families, including my own, and our communities. We all depend on the forest to earn a decent living and support our families, and have done so for many generations.
In conclusion, you must understand that no financial compensation can replace maintaining the socio-economic vitality of an already devitalized region like the one we live in, the Haute‑Côte‑Nord.
We would like to thank you for giving us the privilege of presenting you with a portrait of our reality.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes.
Chief Martin Dufour now has the floor.
Chief Martin Dufour Chief, Council of the Innu First Nation of Essipit
[The witness spoke in Innu.]
[French]
I'm Chief of the Innu First Nation of Essipit. I will loosely outline the ancestral territory of the Innu of Essipit, the Nitassinan, which stretches from the Portneuf River to the Saguenay, reaches as far as the municipality of Saint-Fulgence and borders Lac Poulin-De Courval.
Since 2003, a moratorium on boreal caribou hunting has been in effect on our community's ancestral territory. In 2000, we took steps to create a biodiversity reserve to be known as Akumunan, which means “the haven”. In 2020, 20 years later, we witnessed the creation of this reserve, of which we are co-managers. Our community has also been in comprehensive territorial negotiations for 45 years with both levels of government.
I will now present further facts.
In 2016, Quebec published its action plan for the management of boreal caribou habitat, which was to lead to a strategy. In 2019, this selfsame government announced the start of indigenous consultations for 2021, promising the publication of a strategy in 2022. Two years later, the strategy is still pending, as are the indigenous consultations, forcing us to turn to the courts. I should point out that, to obtain the same rights we acquired through negotiation, other nations decided to take the legal route. It's been a long, drawn-out battle. On June 21, the Quebec Superior Court ruled in our favour. As a result, Quebec has until September 30 to consult us on the matter.
Let us turn to the federal decree.
Currently, 3.7% of the territory covered by the decree is on our ancestral territory, the Nitassinan. That's very little. We're often asked why Essipit supported the decree. It's not hard to understand: As I just told you, we've been waiting eight years for a caribou strategy, so the goal was to get the Quebec government to respond. That was the primary goal.
Among all the measures I've just listed or explained, none were taken with the aim of going against the industry. I'd like to make that clear. As Mr. Deschênes said earlier, we are co-owners of the Granulco plant, as is Boisaco. We also own the BMR hardware store in Les Escoumins. If no one produces the materials, we won't be able to sell them. I want to assure you that we're not anti-industry, not at all. Essipit's intention has always been to strike a balance between protecting our territory, jobs and development. It's a pity, because that's a message we wanted to drive home in recent weeks, but it was never relayed by the media.
Finally, and this is very important, I respectfully invite the Quebec government to participate with us and the federal government in the search for solutions to not only save the caribou, but also preserve jobs. I am convinced that together, we can find solutions that are acceptable to all.
Tshinashkumitin to all of you. Thank you for listening.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
It is we who thank you, Chief Dufour.
Mr. Martel will begin the first round of questions.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for agreeing to come and share their views today.
I have a question for Mr. Baillargeon.
We're hearing from some groups that the effect of the decree on forestry opportunities is only 4% and that the forestry sector is complaining for nothing. What do you think?
President, Alliance forêt boréale
We strongly disagree with that assertion. Yes, the decree affects 4% of forestry potential across Quebec, but that represents 7.7% for Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean and 12.3% for Côte-Nord. This is completely disproportionate to the impact that will be felt throughout Quebec. The impact will be much greater in areas such as the Haute-Côte-Nord and Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean. In the Haute-Côte-Nord region, for example, Boisaco will lose around 60% of its allowable cut over the next few years, if the decree is imposed.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Mr. Baillargeon, given the forest fires and the measures that have already been taken to protect the boreal caribou, times are tough right now.
Do you think the affected mills could source from neighbouring territories?
President, Alliance forêt boréale
It's a bit utopian to believe that will be an option, because it will have an impact in a number of ways. First, there's transportation. We need to make sure that our access to this fibre is as close as possible to the mills, not only for economic reasons, but also for environmental ones. Secondly, distributing losses here and there, between just about every mill, would only weaken their productivity and competitiveness. So it's virtually impossible to engineer that kind of thing, i.e., to distribute the impacts between each of the other mills.