Environment Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2024

[Gareth Gransaull]

I believe there are a lot of considerations involved.

One of them is that there are sometimes, unfortunately, trade-offs between the very short-term interests and the long-term interests of companies.

In the way capitalism has evolved over the last 50 years, there has been an increasing trend towards defining fiduciary duty in very short-term ways, particularly as the compensation of corporate directors has been increasingly linked to stock price, which was not always historically the case. As a result, events like the bankruptcy example I gave are more likely to be the case in the future, to the extent that corporate directors are incapable of acting on longer-term time horizons, including the horizons over which climate change materializes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much. We'll stop here.

I thank the witnesses for this informative and lively discussion. It helps us a great deal to clarify the challenges and understand them better, indeed.

We'll take a short two-minute break before moving on to—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Chair, I have a point of order.

I guess I want to go back, circle back to my motion. The fact is that it is my right—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're going to find out.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I don't think that's a point of order.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Find out before this meeting closes, because we're going in camera.

It is my right to give verbal notice during a meeting, and when I gave the notice, the committee was all sitting here. It was my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't have an answer for you just this moment, but we'll—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Before we go in camera, I would like a decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

My decision was that your time was up. You weren't moving the motion. You were giving notice, and I don't.... If the committee disagrees with my decision, we can.... Are we challenging the chair?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. Let's have a vote on that.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That I cannot give verbal notice, once I started—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

As I understand it, and if I'm wrong I will gladly apologize to Mr. Mazier, but I don't know if I'm wrong yet. We'll find out.

In the meantime, if you'd like to challenge the chair's decision, please do so, and we'll have a vote. If not, I'm going to suspend so we can go in camera.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You are challenging the chair, so let's have a vote.

There's no real debate on this, Ms. Collins. Is it a point of clarification?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

My point of clarification was whether there was any debate on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay, so if we vote yes, we affirm, we support the chair, and if we vote no—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I get to read my motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Do you agree with Mr. Mazier that the chair was wrong?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I feel like we're going to find out later what the verdict is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

A yes is with Mr. Mazier, and a no is—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

No, it's the other way around.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. A yes is with the chair; you're sustaining the chair. A no means you're with Mr. Mazier.

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 7; nays 4)

We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes, so we can do all we have to do to go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]